Season Seven: 13 years later
- Thread starter Eric Cheung
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^Agreed, good sir! 
Love Ezri. Love her. DeBoer is incredibly hot, I agree. Not that Farrell is terrible, but DeBoer is just more my type.
Actually this is sort of intresting as I've finally convinced my brother and cousin to start watching DS9. We're up to where we just saw "The Passenger" and so far they like it...except for some of the acting. Sure, Siddig's acting as he's "possessed" in "Passenger" is dreadful and way over the top, but I always felt it was supposed to be as he's possessed by this crazy criminal. Other then that they're having a hard time with Avery Brooks acting at times, and I always enjoyed his "flamboyant" style.
Actually this is sort of intresting as I've finally convinced my brother and cousin to start watching DS9. We're up to where we just saw "The Passenger" and so far they like it...except for some of the acting. Sure, Siddig's acting as he's "possessed" in "Passenger" is dreadful and way over the top, but I always felt it was supposed to be as he's possessed by this crazy criminal. Other then that they're having a hard time with Avery Brooks acting at times, and I always enjoyed his "flamboyant" style.
Oh dear! That was not the point of Chimera at all. I see it like this; how do you be yourself and your true identity when your people are the enemy and other people don't want to be reminded of how different you are? The second point of Chimera was how love can transcend all boundaries: race, gender and even sheer anatomy (and I really dig that sweet end scene where Kira says to Odo that she wants to truly know him).
The only loose reference to homosexuality was Quark saying something about there not being a 'changeling pride demenstration' a play on 'gay pride demenstration' or something.
The problem I initally had with the Ezri character was that a big deal had been made in an earlier episode that newly-joined Trill shouldn't reconnect with the lives of former hosts, especially loved ones. Yet, here was Ezri, thrown back into the very posting vacated by Jadzia, serving with Jadzia's husband and friends, and with Curzon's former protege. (Weren't Jadzia & Sisko breaking that same rule earlier?)
But Ezri grew on me during Season 7, and I rationalized that the Federation was at war, and that could lead to uncomfortable postings sometimes. But it always niggled at me.
But Ezri grew on me during Season 7, and I rationalized that the Federation was at war, and that could lead to uncomfortable postings sometimes. But it always niggled at me.
On the whole, DS9 has aged well. Period.
Well, the fact that Jadzia and Sisko were carrying on like so would seem to imply that the "rule" is not as more strict interperetations would hold to be.
Ezri herself acknowledged the rule in "Afterimage". "That doesn't mean we can't talk to each other--Worf knows that!"
Do you really not see how everything you just wrote applies precisely to the situation for LGBT people (in Western cultures, at least) ?
Many people do see LGBTs as the enemy, and they don't want to be reminded that we exist. Love does transcend race, gender and anatomy. You basically made Caprican's point for him.
I'm not saying that was the entire point of the episode, certainly. In fact I'd say the core of the episode was the love story between Odo and Kira. But those layers are definitely there, and obviously subtle enough that you think the use of the word "pride" is the only thing relevant to LGBTs. Something doesn't have to use the word "gay" to be relevant to gays.
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I have to agree with what's been said about Ezri. When it all first went down I was determined not to like her character because I didn't want to see Jadzia gone. But in hindsight, I think she was more interesting than Jadzia.
Ditto x10 on this one. That scene in Quarks between the two of them shows the real difference between Jadzia and Ezri. Jadzia would have just blown Klingon smoke up Worf's ass which would have ended with them getting it on to the sounds on Klingon opera in the background. Ezri actually gave him a truthful commentary that led him to take meaningful action. While Jadzia indulged Worf's Klingon broodiness, Ezri wasn't afraid to tell him to get over himself.
I have to agree with this also. In "Rejoined" Sisko was freaking out about Jadzia being on the station with Lenera Kahn even for a few days and tried to get her to take time off to keep herself out of trouble. But in the case of Ezri he encourages her to stay and she pretty much steps right back into the life of her previous host. I get that this is a TV show and this change of attitude was needed, but it bugged me too. I rationalized it by thinking that because Ezri had no initiate training the symbiosis commission thought it would be fine for her to just resume the previous host's life.
The scene in "Afterimage" where Ezri says that she can't stay because it would be unfair to Worf but Sisko tells her it's no big deal... I remember thinking that she was right, it would be completely unfair. Talk about messing with someone's (already messed up) head.
Yep. I've been re-watching TNG and DS9 and TNG seems so... dated. But I think it's because DS9 is more of a drama that just happens to take place on a space station in the future whereas TNG is oftentimes very technology driven, and in 2012 their view of the tech future includes stuff I already have. Interpersonal drama, war, death, love, etc. never get old. But some of those technobabble-dependent stories definitely do.
Ditto x10 on this one. That scene in Quarks between the two of them shows the real difference between Jadzia and Ezri. Jadzia would have just blown Klingon smoke up Worf's ass which would have ended with them getting it on to the sounds on Klingon opera in the background. Ezri actually gave him a truthful commentary that led him to take meaningful action. While Jadzia indulged Worf's Klingon broodiness, Ezri wasn't afraid to tell him to get over himself.
I have to agree with this also. In "Rejoined" Sisko was freaking out about Jadzia being on the station with Lenera Kahn even for a few days and tried to get her to take time off to keep herself out of trouble. But in the case of Ezri he encourages her to stay and she pretty much steps right back into the life of her previous host. I get that this is a TV show and this change of attitude was needed, but it bugged me too. I rationalized it by thinking that because Ezri had no initiate training the symbiosis commission thought it would be fine for her to just resume the previous host's life.
The scene in "Afterimage" where Ezri says that she can't stay because it would be unfair to Worf but Sisko tells her it's no big deal... I remember thinking that she was right, it would be completely unfair. Talk about messing with someone's (already messed up) head.
Yep. I've been re-watching TNG and DS9 and TNG seems so... dated. But I think it's because DS9 is more of a drama that just happens to take place on a space station in the future whereas TNG is oftentimes very technology driven, and in 2012 their view of the tech future includes stuff I already have. Interpersonal drama, war, death, love, etc. never get old. But some of those technobabble-dependent stories definitely do.
To me, TNG comes off as much more self-conscious and stiff than DS9. Also, television has changed so much that DS9's serialized storylines are much closer to the way TV is now than TNG's mostly stand-alone stories. That, and there's a weird sort of "look" to early TNG which even early DS9 doesn't have. I can't explain that very well.
Yeah, it's allegorical for lots of people. That's what makes it good. It's universal. That it works as an allegory for homosexuality is even better since DS9 actually seemed to touch on that the most. They could have done more, but there was the one where there was the female Ferengi that Dax thought was male and had a crush on Quark, there was of course Rejoined, and even the Mirror Universe stuff wasn't quite as exploitative as I remember (though it was still not exactly great stuff in that regard).
Interestingly enough, Chimera is the next episode on the list. We still have to decide whether to see the two (the last two stand-alones Badda-bing Badda-bang and Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges) after that in airdate order or in production order.
As a bisexual man, I can appreciate Chimera for its universal components. It is beautiful and talks about the need to find acceptance in one's life. Acceptance of yourself. Does that apply to Homosexuals? Yes. But it also applies to Muslims in America. It applies to women who soften themselves because they are afraid they will not be accepted. It comes from people who try to hide, and LGBTQ people are on the fray and try to hide.
I think it also talks about society embracing differences. Too often we see people as we see ourselves. A variety of perspectives can heal the world. Period.
From a science fiction standpoint, I love the concept of being able to change form. If you could be anything in the world you want, anything at all, what would you be? Would you be the sun? Would you fly in space without a space suit? It strikes at the imagination as well as talks about something very relevant to the human condition.
For that reason, Chimera is great Star Trek.
I think it also talks about society embracing differences. Too often we see people as we see ourselves. A variety of perspectives can heal the world. Period.
From a science fiction standpoint, I love the concept of being able to change form. If you could be anything in the world you want, anything at all, what would you be? Would you be the sun? Would you fly in space without a space suit? It strikes at the imagination as well as talks about something very relevant to the human condition.
For that reason, Chimera is great Star Trek.
For me, Laas just came across as a complete jerk.
agreed. That's why the episode doesn't work for me, they chose a bad character to convey its message.
Just saw Chimera now. Initial rewatch thoughts are that, yes, it's sort of a portrait of a lot of oppressed peoples throughout history. Odo and Laas are simply different takes on the issue. Laas is more militant because he's had far more time to become bitter and cynical about humanoids. Odo has only had 30+ years among them and while he's been conflicted over the years, he's arguably had a harder time, given that he knows his people so much better than Laas, and his people's relationship with solids. Odo probably handles a tougher situation than Laas had, better than Laas did, but it's hard not to see both of their points of view.
I don't see Laas as a jerk so much as someone who has been hurt and therefore has a chip on his shoulder much like a lot of the characters on the show. I think given time his stance may have softened, and maybe he would have understood acts like Kira's sacrifice.
But even if he hadn't, these movements all have had their militant advocates and it would be dishonest to suggest otherwise. It's part of what makes the Founders as effective as a fictional empire as they are. Odo, the Founders, and Laas all had different ways to make their hurt known and I think they're pretty representative of the spectrum of such movements for a TV show that isn't just about that.
While Quark is usually very insightful about people and society I think he was a little more cynical about humanoids innate prejudice than might have been fair. I think he was however right about Laas' timing being a little off.
I don't see Laas as a jerk so much as someone who has been hurt and therefore has a chip on his shoulder much like a lot of the characters on the show. I think given time his stance may have softened, and maybe he would have understood acts like Kira's sacrifice.
But even if he hadn't, these movements all have had their militant advocates and it would be dishonest to suggest otherwise. It's part of what makes the Founders as effective as a fictional empire as they are. Odo, the Founders, and Laas all had different ways to make their hurt known and I think they're pretty representative of the spectrum of such movements for a TV show that isn't just about that.
While Quark is usually very insightful about people and society I think he was a little more cynical about humanoids innate prejudice than might have been fair. I think he was however right about Laas' timing being a little off.
I'm sure a big issue, of course, is whether Laas had gotten the virus from Odo. He almost certainly did, considering things....
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