Season 7-Your views...

[plynch]

I think season 7 among the worst season of DS9. Demon possessed Gul Dukat was way to much a BAD idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUGxisKfkH4&feature=related

When Jake and Kira had battling energy beams coming out of their chests: lame!! "Evil" energy beings would qualify for the "weak writing" thread elsewhere. Especially since pagh (sp?) wraiths hadn't been mentioned before and come out of nowhere. Like Dukat's mentioning he had an affair with Kira's mom. Like he wouldn't have mentioned that sometime in the previous five years. Ouch. And those are both from season six, I think.

 

[MyCylon]

^
I was actually going to say the Pagh'Wraiths were first introduced in S5 in "The Assignment, but it seems they were actually mentioned even earlier than that, in S1's "The Nagus" (Memory Alpha article on The Assignment).

 

[plynch]

^
I was actually going to say the Pagh'Wraiths were first introduced in S5 in "The Assignment, but it seems they were actually mentioned even earlier than that, in S1's "The Nagus" (Memory Alpha article on The Assignment).

You are good. So why does it SEEM they come out of nowhere? It's like the show is going along . . . Dominion War . . . wha-bam: Pagh Wraiths are a big deal.

It feels like the writers weer hurting for an idea.

 

[MyCylon]

^
Hmm, I don't know. I never really felt that way, to be honest. The Prophets were always part of the show. And we never really knew much about them (which was part of the point, I'd say). So having a foe arise at some point doesn't seem to come out of nowhere, to me anyway.

Plus I really liked the idea of the Pagh'Wraiths being former Prophets that were cast out of the Temple. In general I liked how much DS9 played with what a God or Gods may really be. They are more powerful, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're free from conflict, which is quite evident here.

 

[steevo]

Overall, I am a fan of season seven, as I am of the entire series. It had gripping episodes dealing with and up to the end of the war as well as "Take Me Out To The Holosuite" and Badda-Bing, Badda Bang" two very fun episodes that are IMHO both series highlights.

 

[plynch]

^
Hmm, I don't know. I never really felt that way, to be honest. The Prophets were always part of the show. And we never really knew much about them (which was part of the point, I'd say). So having a foe arise at some point doesn't seem to come out of nowhere, to me anyway.

Plus I really liked the idea of the Pagh'Wraiths being former Prophets that were cast out of the Temple. In general I liked how much DS9 played with what a God or Gods may really be. They are more powerful, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're free from conflict, which is quite evident here.

Thanks for the reply. I disliked the good-beings-gone-bad-and-expelled angle: it seemed to me an overused trope. Paradise Lost, elves in Middle Earth, etc. But like what you like, I'm not saying you're wrong.

One thing that ALWAYS bugged me, though: they're called prophets, which is usually used for someone, a person, who speaks for "god." Bajor's "prophets" WERE actually "gods" to the Bajorans, even after they knew they were wormhole aliens, too. (Sisko was a prophet, I'll grant you that.)

What a small thing to get bugged by, eh? Overall I like DS9. It is often good. Be well!

 

[Mirror_Barclay]

One thing that ALWAYS bugged me, though: they're called prophets, which is usually used for someone, a person, who speaks for "god." Bajor's "prophets" WERE actually "gods" to the Bajorans, even after they knew they were wormhole aliens, too. (Sisko was a prophet, I'll grant you that.)

So true.

For a long time I figured the Prophets were one layer of the Bajoran religion - but we never got any references to any god(s) they spoke for.

 

[DeafPoet]

I'm pretty impressed with season 7 to be honest. I never really had any complaints about Dukat becoming one-dimensional. I can see why people might say it, but to me his character evolution makes sense.

I agree completely. Dukat was a very multifaceted, conflicted character. Always battling with himself. It seems fitting that eventually he'd lose that battle and just become a bastard. Doesn't ring the least bit false to me.

DS9 was about, in some respects, the battle for Dukat's soul. That needed to be brought to conclusion somehow and I think the way they did it was beautiful.

 

[Praetor]

Also agreed. Sure, some moments were a bit over the top, but it still made sense.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

One thing that ALWAYS bugged me, though: they're called prophets, which is usually used for someone, a person, who speaks for "god." Bajor's "prophets" WERE actually "gods" to the Bajorans, even after they knew they were wormhole aliens, too. (Sisko was a prophet, I'll grant you that.)

So true.

For a long time I figured the Prophets were one layer of the Bajoran religion - but we never got any references to any god(s) they spoke for.

I always saw the Prophets as more like angelic beings in the way they acted/were portrayed than actual deities...but that's just me.

 

[Praetor]

I could easily see there being a non-personal creator entity in the Bajoran faith that we didn't hear about. Was it ever expressly said that the Bajorans believed that the Prophets created the universe, or at least them?

 

[MyCylon]

The only thing is that I think it was always clearly stated that the Bajoran's worshipped the Prophets and that they were their Gods. So I'm not sure they'd really qualify as angels, for example, or that there is another layer or another entity somewhere.

 

[JanineSal]

Aside from the story arc revolving around the Federation's attempt to commit genocide against the Dominion, I do not have a high opinion of Season 7.

 

[Tulaberry whine]

I think the season starts rather unevenly before pulling it all together for a largely stellar finish (WYLB is, admittedly, disappointingly pedestrian in many respects though).

I think many Season 7 episodes play much better on subsequent viewings. I think one of the big problems with arc-based tv shows is that in their final seasons viewers become fixated on the big questions, meaning standalone episodes are treated as little more than frustrating interruptions in the grand story. I know for me episodes such as Afterimage, Take Me Out to the Holosuite, Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang, Once More Unto the Breach, Field of Fire, and Chimera came across much better on a second viewing once I knew how all the big stuff was wrapped up.

'The Final Chapter' episodes, for the most part, are excellent.

And it says alot about Nicole de Boer that the character of Ezri Dax is ultimately as memorable as she is considering how many weak episodes she was the subject of.

 

[Myasishchev]

One thing that ALWAYS bugged me, though: they're called prophets, which is usually used for someone, a person, who speaks for "god." Bajor's "prophets" WERE actually "gods" to the Bajorans, even after they knew they were wormhole aliens, too. (Sisko was a prophet, I'll grant you that.)

So true.

For a long time I figured the Prophets were one layer of the Bajoran religion - but we never got any references to any god(s) they spoke for.

It's possible the Bajoran religion didn't impute omnipotence to the wormhole aliens, or technically supernatural attributes, only vast wisdom and superbajoran capabilities. Combined with the wormhole aliens' propensity to show the future through their orbs, the universal translator spit out "prophets" as the English equivalent, and we ran with it.

The Bajorans surely have their own specific word for their particular concept of the wormhole aliens, perhaps "pagh" something, as pagh wraith is a compound Bajoran-English word, apparently because there's no good translation for "pagh" but "wraith" suitably captures the meaning of the second Bajoran term. Maybe it's "pagh benevolent spirits" compared to "pagh malevolent spirits," and since there aren't any good English words for "benevolent spirit," the UT machine (or even live translators using UT software) turned to alternative translations.

 

[Natural]

It was strong as a story arc, but it's lost some of its replay value because of it. I like to go back and watch single episodes every now and then, and it somehow isn't as satisfying when you have to pick a random episode in the middle of a story arc. Still a strong season, but not quite as strong as it was the first go around.

 

[katie9918]

I loved most of season seven. There were a few too many episodes focusing on Ezri, but I liked her from, "It's me... Dax," so it wasn't as annoying to me as it might have been to others.

One of the things I loved is that the entire season seemed to be a complete labor of love from everyone involved. Not that the entire series wasn't, but it's nice to look back with the benefit of interviews and articles and the DS9 Companion and know that they all knew exactly how special the experience was even as they were still knee-deep in it.

The characters for the most part (the exceptions being Dukat, who did sort of go off the rails, and Jake, who pretty much vanished) were well-looked after, the supporting characters just as much as the main characters. It was just so delightful to watch the story come to a close.

Worf took the first steps to reforming the Klingon Empire and Martok became chancellor. The O'Briens got to go back to Earth. Kira got the station. Nog got a promotion. The Emissary storyline paid off in spades and elevated The Sisko to a place that no other captain has gone before. Garak got to go home and take point in the reforming of Cardassia. Rom became Grand Nagus.

I spent a good deal of the entire season with a lump in my throat during the original viewing a decade ago, knowing that this was truly the end of one of the best television series I had ever had the privilege of discovering, miles ahead of TNG which I had finally quit in disgust at the blandness of it all, and the same holds true on repeated viewings.

You don't get many Damars these days. A one-line character who went on to be one of the most disgusting villains and then emerge as one of the true heroes of the series.

I don't think DS9 has lost one iota of its fantastic-ness on repeated viewings. Popping in the DVDs makes me nostalgic for the first television series that really truly made me consider and challenge my perceptions. Kira Nerys was one of the first characters who ever made me really think. Here was a terrorist, but she was merely a freedom fighter trying to free her people from an oppressive occupying force.

The best way to say it is that I still get every bit as verklempt watching it now as I did then.

 

[neogothboy74]

Season 7 had stock footage, a maniacal Dukat (which somewhat contradicted the character in earlier seasons), a more quicker and less fleshed out ending...

What do you think?

Stock footage doesn't bother me. Bad special effects don't bother me (not that DS9 had bad special effects). It's well written stories that bring me back to DS9.

I didn't like maniacal Dukat either. I found him far less compelling after he went insane, but that happened in Season 6. Season 7 was just the big pay off for that.

I'm not sure how you define the finale to season 7 of quicker or less fleshed out when it was a 10 part story? I actually prefer the ending of DS9 to all the other Treks. Does it wrap everything up? No. But it covers far more ground than any of the others. And as a fan I felt extremely satisfied. People died. People left. Lives were changed. I cried.

 

[I am not Spock]

Man, I feel so old thinking that the last few eps of DS9 were airing about TEN YEARS AGO! Where did all that time go?

 

[Hoshi_Mayweather]

Season 7 had stock footage, a maniacal Dukat (which somewhat contradicted the character in earlier seasons), a more quicker and less fleshed out ending...

What do you think?

Stock footage doesn't bother me. Bad special effects don't bother me (not that DS9 had bad special effects). It's well written stories that bring me back to DS9.

I like to have it all: Well written stories, action, effects not reused...

And, no, I'm not saying that DS9 had bad effects either.

I'm not sure how you define the finale to season 7 of quicker or less fleshed out when it was a 10 part story? I actually prefer the ending of DS9 to all the other Treks. Does it wrap everything up? No. But it covers far more ground than any of the others. And as a fan I felt extremely satisfied. People died. People left. Lives were changed. I cried.

Too answer that fully, I'll have to revisit Season 7.

***

On another note, although still in regards to Season 7, I thought the omission of Jadzia Dax (which has been argued many times) was felt:

From a story/payoff standpoint, especially if you're going to have a character (i.e. Worf) recall the things and people he had lost or will leave behind, surely you'll have the one person--Dax--who understood and loved him seen in that flashback.

Yes, I know contract stuff, behind-the-scenes stuff...but it still doesn't work in relation to the story....and it feels like something is missing.