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Season 5- The most inconsistent?

Vger23

Vice Admiral
Admiral
The thread in the General Section regarding "the worst seasons of Trek" got me thinking about TNG's 5th season. It occurred to me that this may be, to me, one of the most inconsistent seasons in all of Trek.

While you have some of the series best work in S5:
Darmok
Ensign Ro
Cause and Effect
The First Duty
The Inner Light

It also contains some of my most despised episodes of the entire series:
Hero Worship
Violations
Masterpiece Society
Cost of Living
Imaginary Friend

And some of the episodes I believe are some of the most overrated in the entire series:
Unification 1&2
I, Borg
Times Arrow, pt 1

So, a very mixed bag. What do you all think? I tend to think that this season has an inflated reputation driven almost solely on the strength of universally beloved episodes like Darmok and Inner Light.
 
I thought Darmok was stupid and I hated The Inner Light.

Picard should have shouted nonsensical metaphors at the alien until it STFU. Perhaps then he would have gotten a clue as to how stupid he sounded.

"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra."
"Riker and Locutus at Wolf 359."
"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra?"
"Riker! And Locutus! At Wolf! Three! Five! Nine!"
 
Was just thinkin of Darmok the other day.. Damn good episode

Just dont forget the outcast in the expletive discar pile.. I can see Riker in some excellent scenes havin fun.. Even that chick from Risa who wanted the Ent D but throwing an interstellar hissy fit for someone who may or may not be a woman.. Prime Direcrive and all.. I dont really see that working out in "Numba One"s favor.. I could even see him as the host for Beverlys hollow man.. But not Outcaat

The thread in the General Section regarding "the worst seasons of Trek" got me thinking about TNG's 5th season. It occurred to me that this may be, to me, one of the most inconsistent seasons in all of Trek.

While you have some of the series best work in S5:
Darmok
Ensign Ro
Cause and Effect
The First Duty
The Inner Light

It also contains some of my most despised episodes of the entire series:
Hero Worship
Violations
Masterpiece Society
Cost of Living
Imaginary Friend

And some of the episodes I believe are some of the most overrated in the entire series:
Unification 1&2
I, Borg
Times Arrow, pt 1

So, a very mixed bag. What do you all think? I tend to think that this season has an inflated reputation driven almost solely on the strength of universally beloved episodes like Darmok and Inner Light.
 
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I thought it was nearly on-par with seasons 3 and 4, all had some episodes that were lesser but were overall quite strong, although "Cost of Living" was the worst episode so far.

I though the characters were quite strong, although Troi, Worf and even Data were kind of coasting, and I tend to like message and dilemma episodes like "The Outcast" and "I Borg". The series did have a few episodes focused on child characters but I thought (aside from the underwhelming and somewhat annoying "New Ground") they were average rather than bad.
 
Well,

Redemption II: Moore's weakest script ever, Data ends up being out of character and is that really due to "programming change/emulating discipline"? But even the best writers have to have an off day.

Darmok is grossly overrated. It's like they rewatched "The Ensigns of Command" with the 30 second cup scene between Troi and Picard, did the simplest form of sentence restructuring possible, and stretched it to a 40 minute episode. The premise is decent, but the execution is iffy at best. Then add in the magic invisible monster and voila: It's rubbish.

Ensign Ro: The first gem of the season. Loved Guinan's response to meeting her.

Silicon Avatar: Not bad, but from recollection Riker didn't seem to care too much about the old man. Or was it his fling o' the week trying to save the geezer that got under his craw? (Interesting metaphorical moral take on cuttlefish and eating different species)

Disaster: Yes, it is. Next, please.

The Game: Corny but worthy. Just about a gem.

Unification - overrated, especially part two. Shark jump.

A Matter of Time: Great episode overall. Matt Frewer sells the part of Rasmussen well, but Robin Williams was meant for the part and that would have been a sweeps week extravaganza to see.

New Ground = apart from the in-joke to Doctor Who with "soliton", the episode tries to emulate the TV trope "Cousin Oliver" with Alexander (new characters to ostensibly refresh the show). I feel bad for Alexander, humans didn't want him and Worf didn't seem to for a while either.

Hero Worship: I'll stick to the B-52s song of the same title.

Violations: Nice psy-horror piece. Another season 5 gem.

Masterpiece Society: Masterpiece in oversimplified fail.

Conundrum: Reuse of Edo deity f/x aside, not a bad premise and execution. Almost a gem but doesn't quite make it there.

Power Play: The music sucks but is largely a great action episode.

Ethics: More oversimplified fail to where the petty peachiness gets overbearing.

Outcast: Interesting premise, that of a society relying on test tube babies instead of flinging bodily fluids at one another because of STDs and other problems because none of them had enough ethics to stay together in relationships where they had consideration for one another. (The intended premise was rather different, but the suits rejected the notion. Even Jonathan Frakes said Riker should have had a male interest lusting after him.)

Cause and Effect: Brannon Braga and his high concept pieces are always fun. This one does a time loop from a new perspective and largely succeeds. And is the Fletcher/catwalk reference due to the infamous Lifecall commercial of the time where (any of the half dozen actresses playing) Mrs. Fletcher calls Lifecall and says she can't get up?

First Duty: Wow, Wesley isn't perfect?! And Tom Paris with his original name, of course.

Cost of Living: Take "Contagion", rewrite the template for critter that eats away at starship systems, find a quick and convenient solution, and then to make the story interesting camp it up with lame wedding stories that save on attire costs by having no attire... forgettable episode.

Perfect Mate: Janssen is good but the story is forgettable.

Imaginary Friend: How can such a bad episode have such great f/x? It's not that bad an episode. It's more plausible than "Darmok", even if viewers start to have flashbacks of "If an adult said it they'd believe him". It's underrated as a story, but not really a gem. More a "middle of the pack"...

"I, Borg": Similar to "The Way to Eden" in terms of characters being altered for the sake of the story, "The Way to Eden" is far more engaging AS a story as well as being less hateful: Ent-D crew de-Borg an isolated Borg, make friends with him, teach him new tricks, carry a bone, bark on command, etc, and then use him cruelly despite all the "he's an individual now, respect him" fluff. Guinan and Picard seem out of character. Shame Voyager didn't take that opportunity but that would be something Ronald D Moore might look at (and with pessimistic/dystopic results, LOL). Instead, they send him back in some silly hope that his being disconnected and learning about being human will do anything, much like how the Borg Collective learned nothing for when they assimilated Picard as Locutus. Jonathan Del Arco nails it and convinces as "Hugh", however. And why not take Picard's original idea up regarding asylum? The Borg will keep attacking regardless of the outcome (duh) and, as always, only with one ship and proving how the Borg really didn't adapt in TNG... Asylum is a half-corny solution but far better one than what became the messy (no pun intended) "Descent". The "virus" the Ent-D crew planned to make would have been a better cause of the Borg falling apart than "third of five, status report"/"Well, call me Hugh and--"/"The designation 'Hugh' is illogical and futile. You are being assimilated. Unit 32768 of 33554432, inject the Focusyn medication into cranial port 7." Done. Sigh, so many missed opportunities and contrivances.

As for the claim of Picard and Guinan "overcoming prejudices", that's a little one-sided. When do the Borg deal with their prejudices - whatever the alleged prejudices are anyway? The Borg takes and adapts everyone and in technical (and technological) terms do improve their lives. But that's what the Borg is - a gestalt entity with a single unified mindset, being comprised of numerous species and races, all working together for the same goal... and they have no room for tolerance for those that disagree with them. Is that the prejudice the Borg have to face, learning tolerance for those not wanting to become Borgified? Case in point: In Voyager, every time Janeway tried to work with them or tell them they didn't want to become Borgified, the Borg wouldn't be bothered to listen... Anyway, Picard's movie outing also is quick to pretend that "I Borg" and its half-baked sequel "Descent" never took place. So was "I Borg" a story championing the Borg? Whatever it's trying to say in terms of non-Borg having prejudices doesn't hold water since it's okay for the Borg to do what it does but it's wrong for Picard and Guinan and Sisko (who clearly had prejudices of his own as well as Picard showing his at the time as well, Picard had to expect some officers would not be sympathetic and he just sidelines it all in the height of irony) and others to feel the way they had since it's the same entity did to them that what it wants to do with everything else and not others via loose association? Again, asylum for (an exception to the rule) was the more logical outcome. A lot of people may have tuned-in back in 1992 because of the word "Borg" but that doesn't mean it's a good story.

"The Next Phase": More high concept goodness and a solid action piece, ignore the flimsy physics - which is easy to do. Am surprised they made the Romulans in the typical "conquering, complete with mustache twirling" mode as opposed to "Hughing them up" even more than what "Unification" tried, it's as if they went back to basics after stumbling with "Unification". Great music as well. It's also a gem of an episode, especially given the low points of season 5...

"Inner Light" - needed a slight rewrite at the end (really, the probe seeks out one person and gives out one flute and it's done? Wouldn't the egocentric society try to tell as many beings as it could find? No problem with no replicator, the probe isn't a pez dispenser for flutes) but isn't that bad a story.

"Time's Arrow" - not as much of a glitzy event as BOBW or Redemption, but is fun. And compared to season they nixed the K-mart mannequin head circa 1981 with that hairdo and got a proper head shaped like Spiner's this time. More mystery into Guinan as well (compared to "Generations", certainly), it's an underrated little season finale and almost a gem.
 
Honestly, Cost of Living & Imaginary Friend are the only ones you listed that I found sub-par, & you can't strike gold every time. I won't say S5 is as good as S3 & S4, but it has very few that I'd call bad, New Ground being one on that list
 
Honestly, Cost of Living & Imaginary Friend are the only ones you listed that I found sub-par, & you can't strike gold every time. I won't say S5 is as good as S3 & S4, but it has very few that I'd call bad, New Ground being one on that list

It's certainly a "to each their own" kind of thing.

I'd take just about any S1 episode from TNG (except Code of Honor and Angel One) over any of the stinkers from S5 I listed above.

And I'd take "Alternative Factor", "Spock's Brain," "And The Children Shall Lead" and "Plato's Stepchildren" over any of them as well.
 
I will be returning to this thread, but I generally agree that the 5th Season could've benefitted from stronger writing. "Unification: Part I" is good. I did not care for Sarek's demise in TNG, I feel he deserved a better place in the series, but ... the writing for the first half of "Unification" was just fine. And I agree, also, that this 2 parter is overrated, in Fan Circles. Yes, Mark Lenard and Leonard Nimoy are top shelf, but their characters are imbedded in a very problematic offering. The sets, the costumes, the makeups, the second-half's storyline ... they all suck. I feel bad for Nimoy, especially. WooHOO!!! Spock's here!!! Well ... yes, but ... what can you do WITH him? Apparently, "not much," is the answer.

I have a soft spot for "Imaginary Friend." I like the Daniel Sutter character very much and sympathise with him, greatly. I also like how Guinan takes Clara under her wing, their scenes are very sweet. But yes, these shitty-assed writers missed a great opportunity to explore what's really interesting about this episode. Namely a good Man's difficulty and guilt in dealing with being a single father of a child who's having a great deal of trouble adjusting to the Starfleet lifestyle. Ten Forward could've offered some great scenes of Sutter trying to get friendly advice, or meet women, or whatever and instead, we get "Annabelle: Creation." TNG seemed to be aware that kids were watching and felt strangely compelled to cater to them by having numerous "kid episodes," like this one. The problem is, they came off as kind of embarrassing and condescending, without meaning to, in their own way. This was compounded by the fact that it's also abundantly evident that TNG's staff has their heart in the right place ... it's just shitty-assed writers, again.
 
I used to be a big fan of Season 5, but that season had child-syndrome or something. We had like 4 and a half episodes featuring children, and these children were not all that great. Heck, even an episode that a lot of people seem to like (Hero Worship) was bogged down because the actor who played Timothy wasn't all that good.

Still, there's a number of great episodes this year, like Power Play, Darmok, and The Next Phase. It's a good season, if not great season.
 
For me, season one was pretty bad.
But other than that, I generally find more good episodes than bad ones.

I watch for fun and entertainment. I don't expect them to take on personal issues of the fictional people. (Boring)

There are only two episodes I'll never watch and that's SubRosa snd Masks.
I think I can find done redeeming quality, or at least something entertaining in every other episode.
 
Most inconsistent? season 7 probably. Season 1 too. I love a lot of it but inconsistency is what gives season 1 it's bad rep. Season 7 had some awful ones. Season 5...never would have come on my radar for inconsistency.

Violations and Masterpiece Society are good to great in my book. I generally love the ones you mention as overrated..to be sure, part 2 of Unification is not great but taken as a whole, I enjoy watching it.

RAMA

The thread in the General Section regarding "the worst seasons of Trek" got me thinking about TNG's 5th season. It occurred to me that this may be, to me, one of the most inconsistent seasons in all of Trek.

While you have some of the series best work in S5:
Darmok
Ensign Ro
Cause and Effect
The First Duty
The Inner Light

It also contains some of my most despised episodes of the entire series:
Hero Worship
Violations
Masterpiece Society
Cost of Living
Imaginary Friend

And some of the episodes I believe are some of the most overrated in the entire series:
Unification 1&2
I, Borg
Times Arrow, pt 1

So, a very mixed bag. What do you all think? I tend to think that this season has an inflated reputation driven almost solely on the strength of universally beloved episodes like Darmok and Inner Light.
 
On a recent rewatch of "I, Borg," I realised that it's really not that hot. I like how "Hugh" is portrayed as an innocent, once disconnected from the Hive and I want to sympathise with him, but I don't. I don't know what it is, for certain, but all of those scenes with Geordi & Bev learning to like him felt very forced to me. Maybe it's the lines, or the direction, just in how the shots are set up, but there's an artificial quality to it that I can't put my finger on. My favourite part of this episode is when Picard finally takes the High Ground, regarding his Princely Plan on finally giving it to the Borg. I know this is a point of contention amongst many TNG fans & Trekkies in general, but it's what I love about Picard, as someone in charge. He may have very strong feelings that cloud his judgement, at times, but in the end, he tries to be just and fair ...
 
The thread in the General Section regarding "the worst seasons of Trek" got me thinking about TNG's 5th season. It occurred to me that this may be, to me, one of the most inconsistent seasons in all of Trek.

While you have some of the series best work in S5:
Darmok
Ensign Ro
Cause and Effect
The First Duty
The Inner Light

It also contains some of my most despised episodes of the entire series:
Hero Worship
Violations
Masterpiece Society
Cost of Living
Imaginary Friend

And some of the episodes I believe are some of the most overrated in the entire series:
Unification 1&2
I, Borg
Times Arrow, pt 1

So, a very mixed bag. What do you all think? I tend to think that this season has an inflated reputation driven almost solely on the strength of universally beloved episodes like Darmok and Inner Light.

In hindsight I think season 5 is better than season 6. There are a few overated shows and some stinkers like "Imaginary Friend" but overall I think it's a solid season. There were too many kiddie shows that year for sure.
 
Season 5 is one I can't really view objectively, because it's when I first discovered Trek in any form, so even the weaker installments have a rosy nostalgic glow to them. "The Game" was the first ep I ever saw. I did think from that that Wesley and Robin Lefler were the stars of the show, so that was slightly confusing after. I wonder sometimes if all the kid episodes this season were crucial in cementing my Trek love, as I was a kid myself at the time. But I don't think so, I suspect I was hopelessly addicted from the first taste.

I did love "Cost Of Living" and "Imaginary Friend" upon original air. I still have fondness for both episodes to this day. I do recall that "Hero Worship" disappointed me at the time -- that might be the first time I experienced being underwhelmed by a Trek ep.

There's only one episode from season 5 that fails completely for me, and it's "A Matter Of Time."

But so many of the others are among my most-rewatched installments... "Power Play", "Cause And Effect", "I Borg", "The Next Phase", "Time's Arrow."
 
In hindsight I think season 5 is better than season 6. There are a few overated shows and some stinkers like "Imaginary Friend" but overall I think it's a solid season. There were too many kiddie shows that year for sure.

Season Five is when I first started to think, you know, I'm kind of busy on Saturday now (when the show was airing) and is it really worth the effort I have to go through to get to a TV where I can watch it if we're going to get, like, a Lwaxana-and-Alexander team-up or more Troi Mind Rape? Or if even the good episodes are like 'Cause and Effect', fun puzzles but emotionally void? It wasn't until Season Six that my catch-on-first-airing rate really plummeted. But Season Five is when I started asking questions that hadn't been seriously challenged since the Outrageous Okona made our lives better by leaving them.
 
My favorite season 5 episodes are the string of high concept sci fi shows that aired mid season, such "Violations", "Conundrum", "Power Play". "A Matter of Time" and "The Next Phase" are also favorites of mine. There are some good shows that I consider overrated such as "Darmok", "I Borg", and "The Inner Light". Most of the crap are the kid shows like "New Ground" and "Imaginary Friend". It's a pity Season 5 ended with such a dud like "Time's Arrow".
 
I think you're absolutely correct. Often, I go to pick an episode of TNG to watch, and when scanning the DVD of S5, realise that while there are quite a few excellent episodes, there are also a lot of episodes that I've no interest in watching again any time soon.
 
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