Season 3: Almost New Trek (for me..)

[Christopher]

For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky

A great title. A great scene where the old man makes this declaration right before he crumples and dies. The rest of it very choppy as though lines of dialog were edited out. McCoy's motivation to stay behind makes little sense. Evil computers enslaving people in ignorance.. kind of familiar. And the big piece missing..where was the asteroid ship headed? What was their promised land? How were they going to get out of the asteroid and how was it going to land?

I offer explanations to a lot of these questions in my novel Ex Machina.

Plato's Stepchildren

This episode could have been saved from cheesiness if it had been Surak's Stepchildren or Kahless's Stepchildren or anything else. You could have had the same story line of aliens taking on a culture they admired and then going rogue and abandoning its tenets. So much interest could be added by making it an alien Trek culture and not a toga party.

But then it would've been a hell of a lot more expensive to make. The budget was severely slashed for the third season. Cheaper to reuse costumes, props, and set pieces left over from some previous historical production than to make a bunch of alien stuff from scratch.

Not to mention that neither Surak nor Kahless would even be created until several months after this script was written.

Did they even quote Plato once in the episode? No, it was all laurel leaves and torture.

I think that was kind of the point -- that the Platonians aspired to Plato's ideal society, but it was just a hollow facade over something far uglier.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The Empath

I found this episode traumatic to watch as a teenager because of the torture. Obviously I was more delicate back then. I note in this thread that a few people list it as their favorite--can't wrap my head around that one. There IS a hugely K/S significant scene in it but otherwise I find it kind of blah.

That Which Survives

Not sure how the "I am for you" connected with the role of the projected image in defense. What was the point of that line? Rather tedious though the end recording by Losira was touching.

Let That Be Your Last Battlefield

Black and white cookies fight to the death over millennium!!!

The Mark of Gideon

Found the predicament of the Gideons quite interesting. But.. where did they get all that room to build a fake starship if they had no space? Wait.. holograms. Must be it. I would think there would be an easier way to import disease. Still, a good mystery!

All Our Yesterdays

Now THIS ep was fangirl heaven back in the day. OH how we loved Zarabeth and Mariette Hartley! And it seemed to me watching it again that she really was one of us..

Spock: That is true. I am not from the world you know at all. My home is a planet millions of light years away.

Zarabeth: Oh, how wonderful! I've always loved books about such possibilities. But they are only stories.

See, see! AND now those stories are REAL. Didn't we all long for the same?

Wonderful episode.

 

[Christopher]

The Empath

... There IS a hugely K/S significant scene in it...

What?? Okay, that's projecting something onto the script that certainly wasn't there. "The Empath" is about the friendship between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. It does have kind of a fanfic feel to it, but in terms of the hurt-comfort narrative rather than anything slashy.

That Which Survives

Not sure how the "I am for you" connected with the role of the projected image in defense. What was the point of that line?

Each Losira image was only targeted on one person. Her touch would kill her target but be harmless to anyone else. So each Losira was "for" one specific person. (Perhaps this was a safeguard to ensure that the defense system didn't harm innocents by an accidental touch.)

 

[gottacook]

The Mark of Gideon

Found the predicament of the Gideons quite interesting. But.. where did they get all that room to build a fake starship if they had no space? Wait.. holograms. Must be it. I would think there would be an easier way to import disease. Still, a good mystery!

That a fleet captain would offer such an opinion I find infinitely disturbing. Making room for a real (or virtual) fake Enterprise is the least of the episode's problems.

How could the leadership of a planet not a member of the federation, or even of a planet that was a member, create a duplicate Enterprise that would fool the captain? "I know every sound this ship can make," he says, implying that all those correct sounds are there (in addition to the one that doesn't belong), as well as the identical physical layout of a ship that can carry 400 crew.

And how did the Gideons learn that the captain of a particular ship had a particular disease in the past? Again, even a Federation member planet would have had a rather difficult time ferreting out this datum. A non-member doing so, ostensibly during membership negotiations? Ridiculous, even if they'd found out some other way.

For the Gideons to have accomplished all this, they would require (1) supernatural powers that would enable them to deal with their overpopulation problem without bringing in Kirk at all, or (2) a galaxy-wide spy network that would have tipped them off as to other colonizable planets.

Then there is the aspect of the bridge crew of the Enterprise being fooled by transposed numbers in the beam-down coordinates. Well, we all have our off days, but surely there must be an automated way of verifying coordinates before beaming anyone down anywhere, as a safeguard against materializing inside rock or something.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The Mark of Gideon

Found the predicament of the Gideons quite interesting. But.. where did they get all that room to build a fake starship if they had no space? Wait.. holograms. Must be it. I would think there would be an easier way to import disease. Still, a good mystery!

That a fleet captain would offer such an opinion I find infinitely disturbing.

Dude. It's not a real rank. It just means you post a lot.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

The Empath

... There IS a hugely K/S significant scene in it...

What?? Okay, that's projecting something onto the script that certainly wasn't there. "The Empath" is about the friendship between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. It does have kind of a fanfic feel to it, but in terms of the hurt-comfort narrative rather than anything slashy.

Wasn't thinking of the hurt comfort thing. It was when the Empath sees Spock sitting next to the injured Kirk and suddenly stops and kind of clutches herself and then takes a few steps forward and is full of pain.. Spock's pain for his friend.

Whether a person finds that slashy or not is up to them. I'm just posting snapshot impressions here, not tomes of analysis, and that was one of my impressions. I'm not a slash person myself but I find that element of fandom kind of fascinating ever since the term subtext was explained to me several years ago.

 

[gottacook]

The Mark of Gideon

Found the predicament of the Gideons quite interesting. But.. where did they get all that room to build a fake starship if they had no space? Wait.. holograms. Must be it. I would think there would be an easier way to import disease. Still, a good mystery!

That a fleet captain would offer such an opinion I find infinitely disturbing.

Dude. It's not a real rank. It just means you post a lot.

Yeah, I know -- how'd you think I got to be a lieutenant commander? In all the years I've been hanging out here, yours are the first positive words I've ever read about "The Mark of Gideon," an episode I first saw (first-run) at age 12. I liked it fine at the time -- "Wow, an empty Enterprise? Cool!" -- but then I had only other third-season episodes to compare it to; I never saw the first and second season until weekday syndication began, a year or two later. That's when I became a bit more critical, although I am still a defender of the often-mocked "The Way to Eden." I suppose if I'd liked Sharon Acker as much as, say, Kathie Browne or Mariette Hartley, I might be more forgiving of the ridiculous "Gideon" script.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

That a fleet captain would offer such an opinion I find infinitely disturbing.

Dude. It's not a real rank. It just means you post a lot.

Yeah, I know -- how'd you think I got to be a lieutenant commander? In all the years I've been hanging out here, yours are the first positive words I've ever read about "The Mark of Gideon," an episode I first saw (first-run) at age 12. I liked it fine at the time -- "Wow, an empty Enterprise? Cool!" -- but then I had only other third-season episodes to compare it to; I never saw the first and second season until weekday syndication began, a year or two later. That's when I became a bit more critical, although I am still a defender of the often-mocked "The Way to Eden." I suppose if I'd liked Sharon Acker as much as, say, Kathie Browne or Mariette Hartley, I might be more forgiving of the ridiculous "Gideon" script.

I am Trek-Positive for the most part and TOS gets a lot leeway with me because I have so much affection for it. As I said, suspending all plot-hole critiqueing, it struck me as primarily a mystery. I know my 13 year old kind of gasped at all the faces outside the window, it was a cool effect and not remembering the ep at all I was sucked into wondering what was really going on. Of course your criticisms are completely fair, accurate and apt.

Good point about the actress, some guest stars added a lot more than others. I thought she played her role like a sad Barbie doll.. and I did get sucked into her self-sacrifice and joy of freedom. She was rather fragile and not just in that goofy girls-are-delicate 60's way which made her role in her people's future more heart wrenching.

Oops!! Now I've written more positive thing unbefitting of my rank!

 

[Iowagirl]

I argue the only reason people dislike this episode is because of some of the silly stuff the characters are forced to do by the bad guys. That is only a small portion of the story and As it's supposed to be humiliating and degrading I think it's effective.

There's nothing like something that tortures me to make an episode my favorite. Not.

There is nothing wrong with degrading a character in the service of a good story. Ever seen The Elephant Man?

D.W. Griffith said that it was important to show darkness in film so that the nature of good could be truly understood.

The dwarf riding shatner may seem cheesy, but look at the pain in Alexander's eyes, he's ashamed of himself.This may be sad to watch, but look how it contributes to an excellent story. In the following scene, which is fantastic, we get to see our heroes recover from this violation. in a great Nimoy scene, Spock is so affected by their mistreatment that he shows genuine emotional concern for kirk, then expresses that he is actually angry at thier captors.

And Micheal Dunn is top notch in this episode. He is so charming in this role, and you really feel for him. He gets humilitated yes, but you also get pure joy when he discovers his self worth and proves he's the better man when he allows them to live. He's a versatile actor, running a gamut of emotions for one episode.

not to mention that seeing a Dwarf in this kind of positive role was uncommon back then, and even today, where dwarfs are either fantasy creatures, monsters, or comedic relief. Alexander was a real person, and I like that.

Finally, good triumphed. I recently watched this with my girlfriend, who had never seen it. When Kirk gained the power and turned the tables, my girlfriend let out a very satisfied grin

People's opinions differ of course, but I'll always defend this one. It's a classic Star Trek morality play that tests the big three, has an exellent guest star, and is just great start to finish.



of course you may disagree

I fully agree. Some of the scenes in this ep are really hard to watch but that's what makes them so striking and the episode's message so powerful - humiliation and oppression of the supposedly weak or of those who are just considered "different"; an issue which is as current as it was in the 60s.

 

[Christopher]

Wasn't thinking of the hurt comfort thing. It was when the Empath sees Spock sitting next to the injured Kirk and suddenly stops and kind of clutches herself and then takes a few steps forward and is full of pain.. Spock's pain for his friend.

Whether a person finds that slashy or not is up to them.

And that's just what annoys me about slash -- the kneejerk assumption that the only possible kind of caring relationship that can exist between two people is a sexual one. That's simplistic and immature. There are many forms of love that don't involve sex. The bond between Kirk and Spock is undeniable, but it's a bond of friends, of brothers.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Wasn't thinking of the hurt comfort thing. It was when the Empath sees Spock sitting next to the injured Kirk and suddenly stops and kind of clutches herself and then takes a few steps forward and is full of pain.. Spock's pain for his friend.

Whether a person finds that slashy or not is up to them.

And that's just what annoys me about slash -- the kneejerk assumption that the only possible kind of caring relationship that can exist between two people is a sexual one. That's simplistic and immature. There are many forms of love that don't involve sex. The bond between Kirk and Spock is undeniable, but it's a bond of friends, of brothers.

Oh there is tons of slash which is about intimacy with no sex involved. You are incorrect in saying that slash assumes all caring relationships are about sex.

 

[Chrisisall]

Slash? A new term to me.
We love our loved ones.
Horizontal mambo is optional.
Except with green Orion girls- then it is MANDATORY!

 

[Christopher]

Oh there is tons of slash which is about intimacy with no sex involved.

"Slash" means homoerotic fanfiction. The term originated in "K/S" fanfiction, a term that referred specifically to fiction postulating an erotic relationship between Kirk and Spock. It was then generalized to homoerotic fanfiction involving any characters in any franchise. Now, maybe there is slash fiction which doesn't feature actual sex, but the whole nature of slash is to depict same-sex relationships as romantic in nature, whether or not the romance is consummated. And there sure as hell wasn't any such implication in "The Empath." So I stand by my assertion that seeing anything "slashy" in that episode is imposing an interpretation that was not intended by the makers of the episode.

 

[Chrisisall]

So I stand by my assertion that seeing anything "slashy" in that episode is imposing an interpretation that was not intended by the makers of the episode.

I concur. It's ludicrous.
And a bit funny.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Oh there is tons of slash which is about intimacy with no sex involved.

"Slash" means homoerotic fanfiction. The term originated in "K/S" fanfiction, a term that referred specifically to fiction postulating an erotic relationship between Kirk and Spock. It was then generalized to homoerotic fanfiction involving any characters in any franchise. Now, maybe there is slash fiction which doesn't feature actual sex, but the whole nature of slash is to depict same-sex relationships as romantic in nature, whether or not the romance is consummated. And there sure as hell wasn't any such implication in "The Empath." So I stand by my assertion that seeing anything "slashy" in that episode is imposing an interpretation that was not intended by the makers of the episode.

LOL! I am certainly not arguing that the makers of the episode intended there to be a homoerotic element. But guess what? No one cares. Nor is it immature or some kind of travesty to read that into it. It just is what it is--a genre some fans have fun with. Fandom is diverse like that.

And hey for the purists who care about intent there's always Miles and Bashir.

 

[Captain Robert April]

How could the leadership of a planet not a member of the federation, or even of a planet that was a member, create a duplicate Enterprise that would fool the captain? "I know every sound this ship can make," he says, implying that all those correct sounds are there (in addition to the one that doesn't belong), as well as the identical physical layout of a ship that can carry 400 crew.

And how did the Gideons learn that the captain of a particular ship had a particular disease in the past? Again, even a Federation member planet would have had a rather difficult time ferreting out this datum. A non-member doing so, ostensibly during membership negotiations? Ridiculous, even if they'd found out some other way.

For the Gideons to have accomplished all this, they would require (1) supernatural powers that would enable them to deal with their overpopulation problem without bringing in Kirk at all, or (2) a galaxy-wide spy network that would have tipped them off as to other colonizable planets.

Then there is the aspect of the bridge crew of the Enterprise being fooled by transposed numbers in the beam-down coordinates. Well, we all have our off days, but surely there must be an automated way of verifying coordinates before beaming anyone down anywhere, as a safeguard against materializing inside rock or something.

Regarding the Gideon High Council knowing all about Kirk's medical history and the exact technical specifications of the Enterprise, down to the decorations, I blame the Federation Diplomatic Corps for that one. Gideon put a boatload of restrictions regarding who could visit the planet, and the diplomats gleefully acquiesced, handing over Kirk's medical records, with special emphasis on what communicable diseases this visitor might be carrying (by itself, not unreasonable) and every scrap of information, short of the really highly classified stuff, of the ship he'd be coming in on, to assure the Gideonites that it wasn't a spy ship.

As for the coordinates, another little restriction that the coordinates could only be entered manually, when directed by the High Council, and that they not be recorded in the transporter system. Of course, there's no accounting for members of the command crew having good memories, or someone jotting down the numbers on a PADD.

How's that for off the top of my head?