Spoilers Season 2 Trailer

[DSG2k]

If you didn't constantly express your OPINIONS as if the were "SACROSANCT" (to use your word), you might actually see that a few folks would agree with you.
As it is, you seem to just flail around insisting that it's your way or space highway.

When so many disagree with your postulations, perhaps it's time to slightly reevaluate your thoughts on the matter.
Either that or continue, and just expect to be continually told your OPINIONS are your own, but they don't represent a large majority of folks that post around here.

Cute, but the first replies from Kirok and Amasov to my opinion they should've just acknowledged and gone with the reboot were all "c'mon, man" and "Disco is evil!" stuff, not a gentle "let's discuss" nature or fact-based conversation.

But please, pretend I am the big meanie for not appreciating and thanking folks trying to claim I am objectively wrong and wrong-headed when they cannot even begin to demonstrate it.

Again, as I have said before, liking Discovery is fine, and there are elements I have enjoyed. Not caring about continuity is fine. I've had pleasant conversations with Discovery fans who either don't care about continuity or who recognize that this isn't the same continuity.

However, the folks who demand that we accept as logically continuous STD details that clearly are not, and who then insult the fandom or even the human worth of those who disagree, are a tremendous problem with Trek fandom right now.

(Star Wars has the same thing going on where anyone who didn't care for Last Jedi is a racist misogynist Russian bot, and we see how healthy that slowing franchise is.)

STD infidels are not your enemy. The attitude that we are infidels who must be cleansed is the enemy, and you'd think Trek fans would know that.

 

[BillJ]

...the spore drive itself is destroyed...

I would think they would still have the blueprints.

 

[DSG2k]

These arguments are extending in to absurd levels. Period. There is a reason why they are not treated with any seriousness. They are not being presented in a serious fashion.

If people want to debate the places that Discovery has violated continuity, by all means do so. But this hyperbolic absurdity is not doing anything but making the claim more absurd, as well as crafting strawmen of posters to shout down in the hypothetical.

Good faith? There is no good faith in this discussion.

I agree there's a lack of good faith discussion. The point of the Discoprise destruction question was to make some people recognize the absurdity, not to strawman anyone, as should've been obvious.

The reaction to that is important. Some might try to shout it down, others disregard, and others might ponder for themselves what continuity means and how far they're willing to go when it is clearly broken.

My intended audience with that was the last group, which I consider to be the most intellectually honest besides the "don't care" folks, et cetera.

 

[BillJ]

...and how far they're willing to go when it is clearly broken.

I'm a stickler, to a degree, for continuity. Which is why I treat Discovery as a separate timeline (I simply can't make it mentally fit with TOS). If they tell me something should fit, then ideally it should fit. But, at the same time, if the show isn't entertaining then none of it really matters.

You have to make the determination for you, how you want to treat it and whether or not you can enjoy it.

 

[DaveyNY]

I agree there's a lack of good faith discussion. The point of the Discoprise destruction question was to make some people recognize the absurdity, not to strawman anyone, as should've been obvious.

The reaction to that is important. Some might try to shout it down, others disregard, and others might ponder for themselves what continuity means and how far they're willing to go when it is clearly broken.

My intended audience with that was the last group, which I consider to be the most intellectually honest besides the "don't care" folks, et cetera.

But why do you have to classify other Trek Fans within your narrow confines to begin with?
Why can't it be acceptable in your mind, that different opinions are just as valid, rather than just plain wrong?
That's the rub of your kinda discussion, it starts with the exact same premise you accuse others of doing.

 

[DSG2k]

You're the one acting as if the world is coming down on you.

No, I simply have multiple posters on the warpath, yourself included. Your personal argument is rather more insidious, of course, as it is purely emotionalism and not based in fact. It's the equivalent of:

1. "Why are you so sad?"
2. "I'm not sad."
1. "There's no need to get defensive about it. I just saw you were sad and wanted to help."
2. "But I'm not sad and need no help."
1. "Oh no, you don't think you deserve help? We all deserve help when we're sad."
2. "Go away, you irrational freak."
1. "You want me to go away because you are sad and don't think you deserve help, which tells me you probably want to hurt yourself. I'm going to call some people to come help you."
2. "Leave me alone!!"
1. "Your increasing anger only reinforces my point. It's time to get you in a straitjacket."

Person #1 is bad. Don't be like that. Stick to the facts under discussion.

 

[BillJ]

No, I simply have multiple posters on the warpath...

No one's on the warpath. We simply have disagreements about Star Trek, something we're all very passionate about. Or else we wouldn't be here.

 

[DaveyNY]

No, I simply have multiple posters on the warpath, yourself included. Your personal argument is rather more insidious, of course, as it is purely emotionalism and not based in fact. It's the equivalent of:

1. "Why are you so sad?"
2. "I'm not sad."
1. "There's no need to get defensive about it. I just saw you were sad and wanted to help."
2. "But I'm not sad and need no help."
1. "Oh no, you don't think you deserve help? We all deserve help when we're sad."
2. "Go away, you irrational freak."
1. "You want me to go away because you are sad and don't think you deserve help, which tells me you probably want to hurt yourself. I'm going to call some people to come help you."
2. "Leave me alone!!"
1. "Your increasing anger only reinforces my point. It's time to get you in a straitjacket."

Person #1 is bad. Don't be like that. Stick to the facts under discussion.

Again, you classify folks to your strict standards, rather than being open to differing opinions.

I can see that there's no middle ground for you, so it's pointless to continue.

You win, enjoy your victory.

 

[DSG2k]

But why do you have to classify other Trek Fans within your narrow confines to begin with?

I didn't begin there. Don't be anti-chronological in your attack. That's a strawman, akin to declaring Hiroshima justification for Pearl.

Why can't it be acceptable in your mind, that different opinions are just as valid, rather than just plain wrong?

If the opinion is that I am objectively wrong over some fact for which I have provided evidence and the other none, the field of battle is not opinion, but reality.

That's the rub of your kinda discussion, it starts with the exact same premise you accuse others of doing.

Too clever by half, I am afraid.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I would think they would still have the blueprints.

They were only printed on some eco-friendly, spore based paper. They disappeared too.

 

[DSG2k]

Again, you classify folks to your strict standards, rather than being open to differing opinions.

I can see that there's no middle ground for you, so it's pointless to continue.

You win, enjoy your victory.

And another baseless personal attack on your way out. Nice.

It would be best to assume that I am a reasonable equal when reading my posts, as I assume of others, rather than trying to overpaint me when you don't like the points I present. Folks can disagree without being charged with thoughtcrimes and declared unfit for discussion. Stop hating the infidels.

 

[fireproof78]

I agree there's a lack of good faith discussion. The point of the Discoprise destruction question was to make some people recognize the absurdity, not to strawman anyone, as should've been obvious.

The reaction to that is important. Some might try to shout it down, others disregard, and others might ponder for themselves what continuity means and how far they're willing to go when it is clearly broken.

My intended audience with that was the last group, which I consider to be the most intellectually honest besides the "don't care" folks, et cetera.

Here's the thing. What is "clearly broken" isn't the same for everyone. The assertion that Discovery has "clearly broken" continuity is variable and incumbent upon the individual viewer to determine how much weight is granted to every single line of dialog.

Their is clearly individual variation on this point. Rather than demanding others see a point of view, it is far more productive to offer a point of view than to declare things "right" or "wrong."

No, I simply have multiple posters on the warpath, yourself included. Your personal argument is rather more insidious, of course, as it is purely emotionalism and not based in fact. It's the equivalent of:

1. "Why are you so sad?"
2. "I'm not sad."
1. "There's no need to get defensive about it. I just saw you were sad and wanted to help."
2. "But I'm not sad and need no help."
1. "Oh no, you don't think you deserve help? We all deserve help when we're sad."
2. "Go away, you irrational freak."
1. "You want me to go away because you are sad and don't think you deserve help, which tells me you probably want to hurt yourself. I'm going to call some people to come help you."
2. "Leave me alone!!"
1. "Your increasing anger only reinforces my point. It's time to get you in a straitjacket."

Person #1 is bad. Don't be like that. Stick to the facts under discussion.

This demonstrates a clear lack of human psychology and how actually to approach people. Also, avoid labels like "bad." Creates a more defensive reaction and does not foster good discussion.

 

[fireproof78]

I would think they would still have the blueprints.

I am imagining that Stamets would use his new found powers to erase it across the multi-verse

 

[Jinn]

Star Trek Discovery takes place in a different quantum reality from every other series. Problem solved

But if there's an infinite number of quantum realities/universes couldn't there also be one where Discovery and all the other shows happen in the same universe? As long as there is some form of logical rationalizations for a problem and an infinite number of alternate universes (which, tbf, hasn't been specified in on-screen Trek, but I think that's sort of a given) there should also be one where all the unlikely rationalizations happened. And one where completely different ones happened. And one where only Discovery exists and the 2260s are fundamentally different from what we've seen in TOS. The way I see it everyone can have their cake and eat it too* in this discussion.

*I always wanted to say that!

 

[DSG2k]

What's funny here is you proved my point and don't even realize it.

No, that's almost exactly not what happened. There's a huge difference between conscious rejection and unwitting stumble. The Voyager example was most likely the latter.

The Disco team deciding to have fun reimagining KlingonKlingon biology, for instance, doesn't constitute a conscious rejection of the Kahless-hair bat'leth story, the hair effects of the Augment virus, et cetera. Those are consequences.

 

[Noname Given]

In TOS the Enterprise destroyed 2 (3?) D7s in a single battle.

In DSC, the Discovery could barely handle a single Cruiser.

Clearly that shows the Connie is a stronger ship.

I love TOS - but, the only time the 1701 was shown destroying a Klingon D7 in battle was the opening teaser of TOS - "Errand of Mercy".

- The 1701 destroyed a 100% disabled (prior to the 1701 encountering it) Klingon D7 in TOS - "Day of The Dove".

- The 1701 badly damaged a Klingon D7 in TOS - "Elaan of Troyius" but did not destroy it.

The 1701 also encountered either 3 (original version) or 2 (with one warbird <-- TOS Remastered) Romulan D-7s in TOS - "The Enterprise Incident" but did not fire or destroy a single one; they just outran and cloaked to escape.

Lastly in TOS - "Friday's Child" Scotty referenced an off screen encounter with a Klingon scoutship, but his only comment was "They had no stomach for fighting.

If you're going to actually reference canon TOS - get your facts in order.

 

[DSG2k]

Can't, not after ENT-D goes at Warp 10 and travels to another galaxy. Or original Enterprise travels outside the galaxy a couple of times, or to the galaxy's core a couple of times without issue.

Voyager's plot has been problematic long, long, before Discovery.

Outliers like ST5 exist, but the other examples are incidents with help. That's hardly the same thing as a developed and proven new drive technology. Hell, even Voyager's writers knew to explain why the drive of the week couldn't be used again.

Mudd went a bit mad. Time Travel will do that. ​

Is that your final, flippant answer?

 

[CorporalClegg]

Outliers like ST5 exist, but the other examples are incidents with help. That's hardly the same thing as a developed and proven new drive technology. Hell, even Voyager's writers knew to explain why the drive of the week couldn't be used again.

That has nothing to do with my point.

 

[Noname Given]

But was also talking about war which one would expect to be mostly in space throughout the federation where people would not be able to see with the naked eye without a news feed. So it makes more sense he was talking about see as in what people would see on the news and its affect on the citizens from casualities.

Can throw this out there again

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^^^
To be fair (and I didn't catre for it, but) - the Klingons called off the attack BEFORE they fired a shot at Earth. And Klingons are KNOWN for re-writing their own history if they fail to complete something, or the facts are inconvenient. So, since they never fired a shot and were all called home because the Feds gave a Planet Desttrying Bomb to L'Rel - they probably rerwrote history here too; like Gowron did after Picard helped expose the Rolulan assistance to the Duras; where Gowron takes full credit, etc.

Hell in the episode TNG - "Birthright" Worf claims the klingons and Romlans have been enemies for centuries...oh, except for the time the klingons and Romulans allied during the TOS era and Romulans started using Klingon designs and Klingons started using a version of the Romulan cloaking device...

So yeah, Klingon history being consistent in Star Trek? No, not so much, and by their own admissions from Worf and other Klingons over the years.

DS9 "Crossover"

INTENDANT: After the first crossover, we were afraid that others might come to interfere in our affairs. It was decided then that if it ever happened again, we would promptly dispose of anyone who appeared from your side.
…
QUARK: Didn't I hear somewhere that a transporter was involved in the first crossover?
…
KIRA: You know I'm looking for a way back. A transporter was responsible for the first crossover.

Neither universe knows Discovery was first crossover, spent half a season there in fact.

^^^
You did see the scene where Empress Georgiou KILLED everyone who knew about the crossover, right?

The Terran Empire also kept the origin of the U.S.S. Defiant a secret too (that incident also occurred prior to TOS - "Mirror, Mirror").

 

[Groppler Zorn]

You did see the scene where Empress Georgiou KILLED everyone who knew about the crossover, right?

I only have one issue with that whole thing.

The terrans are paranoid. Everything is monitored. People are constantly being watched, filmed, scrutinised.

It would be odd if the imperial flagship wasn’t under constant surveillance, even the empress herself. Or at the very least there would likely be a black box recorder.

I think there would still be some evidence of the federation incursion into the MU before Kirk and the gang ripped off the same idea ten years later.

I actually wouldn’t mind seeing that story - someone in the MU finds this evidence and embarks on an attempt to invade our universe...