• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Scott Pilgrim...WTF??

I think honestly Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World is an amalgamation of different aspects of a certain youth culture that was never meant to appeal beyond anybody who has ever played a game of Tetris or Dance Dance Revolution. Or for anyone who hasn't read a comic-book or been exposed to how texting can complicate things.
I think you're right, but at this point you're describing millions and millions of people. It's no longer "very niche", it's pretty much what the mainstream has become. It still doesn't explain why the movie flopped (and don't ask me, because I haven't seen it).
 
I think honestly Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World is an amalgamation of different aspects of a certain youth culture that was never meant to appeal beyond anybody who has ever played a game of Tetris or Dance Dance Revolution. Or for anyone who hasn't read a comic-book or been exposed to how texting can complicate things.
I think you're right, but at this point you're describing millions and millions of people. It's no longer "very niche", it's pretty much what the mainstream has become. It still doesn't explain why the movie flopped (and don't ask me, because I haven't seen it).

It's possible. Then again, I know plenty of contemporaries who don't play video games or read comic-books and a lot of people who are older who also don't do or participate in any of those things. Scott Pilgrim is a celebration of pop culture, and is essentially about how pop culture has affected and transformed our contemporary culture. I think as a premise that probably only appeals to a certain demographic.
 
It's possible. Then again, I know plenty of contemporaries who don't play video games or read comic-books and a lot of people who are older who also don't do or participate in any of those things.
You're right, but lots of people never ever go to the movies either. I think at this point, we should really stop thinking of movies as more mainstream than video games, because they're not. A large but limited segment of the population is interested in one or several forms of pop culture, while the majority is not, because as a rule, the majority doesn't care that much about anything.

Scott Pilgrim
is a celebration of pop culture, and is essentially about how pop culture has affected and transformed our contemporary culture. I think as a premise that probably only appeals to a certain demographic.
You're right, maybe that's the problem. On the other hand, I could say the same thing about Saturday Night Fever and Shrek, both very successful movies.
 
There are no shortage of geek cinema and/or pop culture infused films that have broken out and become substantial hits, so I don't think that's the root of the film doing badly. Maybe it's as simple as a $10-11 million opening being the best that Michael Cera can muster without a popular co-lead.
 
Saturday Night Fever captured the cultural zeitgeist at the time, something Scott Pilgrim failed to do. Shrek also had the benefit of being an animated film (and those are "in" these days -- even completely unknown concepts like How To Train Your Dragon and Despicable Me somehow find audiences...) and featuring an all-star voice cast. The biggest star in Scott Pilgrim, at least going by box office, is Michael Cera and I think he's going through a period right now where people are mostly fed up with him.

As for the inference that video games are more popular than movies, that is completely possible. I don't know that much about the financial success of most video games so I can't really comment. I'm only familiar with films, and if video games make at least $100 million as most blockbusters do than more power to them.

I think one element to the "failure" of Scott Pilgrim on a financial level is probably because it was too foreign of a concept. Similar to Kick-Ass, it doesn't have the notoriety or familiarity of Batman or Superman or Spider-Man. It's possible that might have been a contributing factor.

Completely unrelated: I also found it funny the film used a song ("By your Side") that was a cover of a Sade song... kinda feel bad for noticing that, but I think Edgar Wright is secretly a Sade fan since Simon Pegg threw a Sade record in Shaun of the Dead.
 
The biggest star in Scott Pilgrim, at least going by box office, is Michael Cera and I think he's going through a period right now where people are mostly fed up with him.
I have to admit that I have never seen Michael Cera in anything and that I had never heard of him before Scott Pilgrim. Is he popular?
 
Michael Cera is mainly known for his role as George Micheal, the son of Jason Bateman's character from "Arrested Development" an excellent comedy series he was also the love interest for Ellen Page's character in the movie "Juno" which is I think considered a critical and cult hit. He's now known as playing the same role or acting the same way in different roles if that makes sense. I wouldn't say he's popular...more like becoming irritating in most people's view or that seems like the general consensus.
 
I think one element to the "failure" of Scott Pilgrim on a financial level is probably because it was too foreign of a concept. Similar to Kick-Ass, it doesn't have the notoriety or familiarity of Batman or Superman or Spider-Man. It's possible that might have been a contributing factor.

Kickass wasn't a failure. Kickasss only did disappointingly at the boxoffice. The movie only cost 30 million to make (Pilgrim cost twice that much) and ended up making 100 million worldwide. Pilgrim will be lucky to even make half of that.

Kickass was also an awesome movie.

I watched to trailers to Pilgrim and couldn't help but roll my eyes. The girl wants the main character to fight all her evil exes? WTF?
 
Michael Cera also played the exact same damn character in Superbad & Year One. Plus, Cera's schtick is wearing doubly thin because now he's got a double-- Jesse Eisenberg (Adventureland, Zombieland), who looks just like him and acts just like him. Just when we were getting tired of one of them, now there's two of them!

IIRC, Scott Pilgrim vs. the World is the 1st film that Cera has ever gotten top billing on. He was billed 2nd on Superbad & Year One behind Jonah Hill & Jack Black, respectively. He was only in supporting roles in Arrested Development & Juno.

I think it would have been especially interesting if they stuck with the original ending they'd filmed (and the direction O'Malley was originally going, if I heard correctly) despite the comic ending differently.

What was that?

I guess more than anything I'm just surprised that I didnt instantly like it, from what I'd heard about it. My geek factor is pretty high and I'm into all the usual geek-dom type stuff. I really enjoy reading Ctrl+Alt+Del, enjoy watching BBTheory and have been geeky for a while.

So when I started reading volume 1 and wasnt interested in it, I found myself wondering why. As a lifelong comic book fan I have to admit I found the artwork to be quite poor. I know its representative of a specific style but there are much better examples of that style available on the market. I didnt expect to resonate with Scott, as I'm a little further down the line in life from where he is now, but for me the hook wasnt there.

I'd agree with a lot of that. I've noticed lately that, now that I've gotten past a lot of my one teenage/early-20s angst, that I have a lot less patience for other people going through that same bullshit. That's why I didn't much care for Adventureland either.

Plus, the presence of Jason Schwartzman just served to remind me of Rushmore. And if you ask me, there will probably never be a better coming of age comedy than Rushmore.

^Please don't speak of such things. I can't handle the thought we'll have another Firefly-style hype backlash.

If it helps, if there is a Scott Pilgrim backlash, I don't think it will last nearly as long as the Firefly one.
 
Michael Cera also played the exact same damn character in Superbad & Year One. Plus, Cera's schtick is wearing doubly thin because now he's got a double-- Jesse Eisenberg (Adventureland, Zombieland), who looks just like him and acts just like him. Just when we were getting tired of one of them, now there's two of them!

I can't stand Michael Cera. Sadly, I can't say I never watched any of his movies since I saw Juno. In my defense, I only watched that for Ellen Page.
 
I think it would have been especially interesting if they stuck with the original ending they'd filmed (and the direction O'Malley was originally going, if I heard correctly) despite the comic ending differently.

What was that?

Well, the original idea was that Scott Pilgrim would ultimately end up with Knives instead of Ramona. But, by the time O'Malley starting getting into writing the sixth and final volume he'd changed his mind, unfortunately the movie was already well underway.

Wright did some re-shoots at some point and some of these included changing the ending. For better or worse, a lot of the Scott+Knives stuff survives, being heavily incorporated into the climax of the film.
 
Kickass wasn't a failure. Kickasss only did disappointingly at the boxoffice. The movie only cost 30 million to make (Pilgrim cost twice that much) and ended up making 100 million worldwide. Pilgrim will be lucky to even make half of that.

Notice how I put the word failure in quotation marks. It's too early to judge the box office standing on Scott Pilgrim. It certainly has had a pretty bad start but it could find success through positive word-of-mouth or through DVD sales, much like how Kick-Ass found an entirely new audience thanks to the DVD medium.

Also, I wasn't even implying that it was even remotely comparable on a box office level. I was saying that comparatively speaking Kick-Ass doesn't have the familairity level such as Scott Pilgrim that Batman or Superman or Spider-Man do and that might be a contributing factor to the lackluster box office.

Kickass was also an awesome movie.

Have you even seen Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World? I agree that Kick-Ass was an awesome movie but I also thought that Scott Pilgrim was similarly awesome.

I watched to trailers to Pilgrim and couldn't help but roll my eyes. The girl wants the main character to fight all her evil exes? WTF?

Ever heard the phrase "Don't judge a book by its cover?" I couldn't get into the film based on the trailers either but I set aside my initial impression and saw the film and was blown away. Give it a chance, if you haven't already.
 
I think I get the movie. I'm just not nearly as charmed by it as a lot of people are. The over-stylized video game elements are funny for a little while but I don't think they mine enough humor out of them to justify a feature film. I think maybe that would have worked better if the movie started playing it pretty straight and incorporated the video game elements more gradually, climaxing in a fever pitch at the end. Edgar Wright showed a much defter hand at that sort of intricate pacing in Hot Fuzz & Shaun of the Dead.

I think the movie also suffers from uncompelling leads. We've talked about Michael Cera already. I also don't think the character of Ramona Flowers quite works. While Mary Elizabeth Winstead is a lovely actress, the character often comes across as so frigid & lifeless that I really have to wonder why any of these men think that she's worth the effort. Not that Knives is any more compelling. She's funny as a one-note stupid teenager but has nothing beyond that. She makes Michael Cera look like the deep, nuanced one. I also didn't think any of the evil exes were particularly interesting or funny, except for Brandon Routh as a psychokinetic vegan.

What makes this movie watchable for me is the rock-solid supporting cast. I kinda wish that the movie had been about Kim & Wallace instead.
 
IIRC, Scott Pilgrim vs. the World is the 1st film that Cera has ever gotten top billing on. He was billed 2nd on Superbad & Year One behind Jonah Hill & Jack Black, respectively. He was only in supporting roles in Arrested Development & Juno.
He previously got top billing in Nick and Nora's Infinite Playlist and Youth in Revolt, which opened to $11.3 million and $6.9 million respectively.
 
I think I get the movie. I'm just not nearly as charmed by it as a lot of people are. The over-stylized video game elements are funny for a little while but I don't think they mine enough humor out of them to justify a feature film. I think maybe that would have worked better if the movie started playing it pretty straight and incorporated the video game elements more gradually, climaxing in a fever pitch at the end. Edgar Wright showed a much defter hand at that sort of intricate pacing in Hot Fuzz & Shaun of the Dead.

I think I personally would have preferred four or five evil ex-boyfriends rather than seven. I think the fight sequences, while visually imaginative, became a little repetitive after a while. Not all of the evil ex-boyfriends were even that remotely interesting. For example, Chris Evans deserved more screen-time than what he got, but I understand a part of the premise implies that these villainous characters are only allowed a certain amount of screen-time. It was just a little tedious after a while.

I think had the film primarily relied on those video game elements to justify a feature film, it definitely would have floundered but fortunately there were so many more interesting elements at play simultaneously (witty supporting characters, quirky visual flourishes, pop culture references, hilarious dialogue) that it all kind of meshed together rather seamlessly in my opinion. Even when I was finding the video game elements redundant, there were still other components at play to distract me momentarily and still keep me entertained.

I think the movie also suffers from uncompelling leads. We've talked about Michael Cera already.

People rightfully complain about Michael Cera playing the exact same character in every film, but here I felt there were some nuanced differences. He was actually tolerable, at least for me, even though I've never quite had the problem with Cera that most do. I think he found a balance at being clueless and sincere that actually worked. Plus, he has shown much more confidence, as part of the characterization, than we've ever seen from any of Cera's previous portrayals. He was also able to make me at the very least still resonate and care for him even when he was being unlikeable. I think that's the beauty of a flawed character -- to have unsavory attributes but to still be endearing in the end.

I also don't think the character of Ramona Flowers quite works. While Mary Elizabeth Winstead is a lovely actress, the character often comes across as so frigid & lifeless that I really have to wonder why any of these men think that she's worth the effort.

I think it was more to due with her being mysterious and aloof and that appealed to Scott at the very least. I think a part of Ramona's appeal was deliberately superficial, as a lot of young romance is. It's either purely aesthetics or something unexplainable that draws people to each other, at least when you're young. I think Scott couldn't even properly explain why he had fallen for her, and that played into the innocence and stupidity of youth that the film was going for in my opinion.

Not that Knives is any more compelling. She's funny as a one-note stupid teenager but has nothing beyond that. She makes Michael Cera look like the deep, nuanced one.

I didn't really care for the Knives character but I thought she was mildly tolerable. She had a sort of innocent, adorable quality that was somewhat endearing. At least she was sincere, and Ellen Wong who played her imbued her with enough genuine sincerity to make her at least tolerable and even empathetic.

I also didn't think any of the evil exes were particularly interesting or funny, except for Brandon Routh as a psychokinetic vegan.

Like I said, the film needed more Chris Evans. Brandon Routh was also a stand-out. How humorous that the best of the evil ex-boyfriends are superheroes. :lol:

What makes this movie watchable for me is the rock-solid supporting cast. I kinda wish that the movie had been about Kim & Wallace instead.

Even had the leads been different (which I think was intentional for them to be the way they were) you would still need a good supporting cast to round out the big players. I think in the context of young narcissistic hipsters and that sort of youth culture, there's usually the good-looking ones that are a little lifeless, devoid of actual personality, and sort of there because they are clueless and attractive.

Then you have the much more substantial group of friends like Kieran Culkin as Wallace and Johnny Simmons as Young Neil that add depth and uniqueness to the group. I guess I'm just basing this off of my own social dynamics, but I thought the whole friendship dynamics of the film felt true and genuine to me.
 
IIRC, Scott Pilgrim vs. the World is the 1st film that Cera has ever gotten top billing on. He was billed 2nd on Superbad & Year One behind Jonah Hill & Jack Black, respectively. He was only in supporting roles in Arrested Development & Juno.
He previously got top billing in Nick and Nora's Infinite Playlist and Youth in Revolt, which opened to $11.3 million and $6.9 million respectively.

Oh yeah. Wow, those dropped out of my memory quick! (But then, I think the Youth in Revolt DVD cover is also difficult to read. My eye doesn't read the title. It reads the review, "Michael Cera gets in touch with his inner badass!")

Re: Kick-Ass: I wasn't particularly charmed by that film either. The whole thing felt pretty ugly & mean spirited. And again, it's kinda a funny idea for a few minutes and would make a great short film or Youtube video but doesn't quite go the distance as a feature film. I will say that Kick-Ass exploited its premise better than Scott Pilgrim did. However, Scott Pilgrim is funnier, mostly because it's got Edgar Wright's killer comic timing behind it.

Re: Shrek: I suppose you could make a case for comparing Shrek to Scott Pilgrim. Both of them are awash in pop culture parody. The difference is that Shrek spoofed Disney fairy tales, something which had been around for over 60 years and was just begging to be taken down a peg. By the time Shrek came out, the thing that it was spoofing was so ensconced in the cultural pantheon that even the grandparents knew what it was. Meanwhile, Scott Pilgrim's cultural basis is only half that old and not nearly as universal. It would be interesting to see how Scott Pilgrim would have fared if it came out 30 years from now, when Super Mario Bros. is considered just as immortal as Snow White & the Seven Dwarfs.
 
I definately agree that there should have been fewer evil exes.

People rightfully complain about Michael Cera playing the exact same character in every film, but here I felt there were some nuanced differences. He was actually tolerable, at least for me, even though I've never quite had the problem with Cera that most do.

To be fair, I really liked Cera back on Arrested Development. He was also one of the only things I liked about Superbad. It's just that, I thought his personality was supposed to be a joke, and a joke isn't funny if you keep telling it the same way over & over again.

Playing the same character over & over again isn't a cardinal sin in Hollywood. Many A-listers have made a career out of it. Look at Bruce Willis, Jason Statham, or even Jimmy Stewart. If a movie star can synthesize a charming persona that people like, he's got it made. As is, Cera has a schtick but not one with enough charm to sustain a career.
 
"What do you think of Michael Cera?" - "Who is Michael Cera?" - "The guy from Scott Pilgrim vs. the World?" - "What the hell is that?" - "A new comic book movie." - "Never heard of it." - "Superbad?" - "Huh?" - "Juno? The guy who got Ellen Page pregnant?" - "Aah, that guy. I don't know."
 
I like Cera, his character, and enjoyed the film. I am surprised that it was marketed to a wide audience, given that it's not for a wide audience. Well, wide is relative, given that we're talking about millions of people. I think its target audience will like it, and yeah, with DVD sales, the studio will make its money back as they always do.

This talk of box-office is silly. If you go by box-office to decide whether or not to like something, what you're saying is that a) you don't know what you actually like, and/or b) you're more interested in what's "in" than what you actually like.

I'll tell you what I didn't like about the movie...other than the cringe-worthy singing first-boyfriend, the too-many fights, and the lack of female role-models - I saw the movie with my 12-year old niece. ...Or no I won't. Need to reconsider.

Highlights included the Chris Evans and Brandon Routh evil-exes, I agree. I also liked the gay humor with Cera's roommate and his sister. Flowers I went back and forth on. As I did with Pilgrim and his two-timing. Poor Knives.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top