Scifi with aggressive sexuality

[CorporalCaptain]

Even if mistreatment is coming from people who are incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions, or even who are incapable of understanding abstract thought on any level, it's still a problem because of the impact it has on the people who are targeted. Harm from catcalls does not simply exist in the moment. It also derives from the broader toxic environment that they have a role in supporting and that they are symptomatic of.

You don't get a free pass to do things that support an environment harmful to other people just because you are stupid. Stupid people don't get a free pass to do bad things.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

So if I'm understanding this Guy is saying "If Chewbacca lives on Endor then you must acquit!"?

 

[BigJake]

"If the glove does not fit, I get to tell you what 'really' happened in your experiences of street harassment."

 

[{ Emilia }]

You just called all men rapists.

That is a lie.

 

[Amaris]

You aren't even remotely grasping what is happening there.

Sexual Objectification of is omnipresent. Power imbalance in society is omnipresent (which includes both systemic inequality but also actual violence against women).
By indulging in that behavior, men are reinforcing this omnipresent objectification that already has a very real and serious effect on women's lives. We do feel objectified because society does treat us as objects.
It's not "in our heads" and we're not being too sensitive. We're talking about real things.

Men have the power to use this century-old but still powerful and culturally dominant tradition of sexual objectification to dehumanize a woman and make her feel awful. It's not a single instance of cat calling that hurts you. It's the fact that it is omnipresent and part of a culture that reinforces this systemic imbalance in society.
And it's also violent, not just because it strips you of humanity (just like so many other instances of objectification do) but also because we know that a guy who sees us as mere objects for his sexual gratification might also decide to rape us.

Exactly. What bothers me about the cat-calling is that it is almost expected from men, as if all men are grunting ogres who can't control their most basic urges around women. Systemic oppression of women has made it so we've pardoned that behavior as acceptable, and that it is just the cost of being a woman, that her real power is in sex. That lie feeds resentment among men and women who have been raised in that toxic environment. That is the gross objectification of women that we as a human culture have allowed to flourish, and the women are paying for it.

 

[BigJake]

You just called all men rapists.

I suppose you think systemic racism doesn't exist either because you never personally owned a slave, right? That's precisely how dumb that statement is. You're being completely idiotic to try digging in your heels here, you are incredibly obviously wrong and over your head.

 

[thestrangequark]

I'm sorry that you have had a series of horrible experiences TSQ, but I did not say that you were lucky, I said that they were lucky that you did not do something to them, and I only thought I was talking about catcalling, not about physically being attacked.

Say I give you the benefit of the doubt, because even though that is not what the sentence says, your writing is often not well-structured or grammatical and is quirky overall. Say I give you the benefit of the doubt and you're saying the men are lucky I didn't do something to them (like what? WTF do you think I can do?), and not that I'm lucky they didn't get the power they wanted (the latter is what the sentence says). Say I give you the benefit of the doubt...the rest of what you posted is just as vile! For all the same damn reasons: Insensitive, obtuse, ignorant, tone deaf BS.

Ugh.

When you are tired of someone online telling you sexual harassment isn't a big deal and you shouldn't be so sensitive, so you go for a walk to get some air and get catcalled half a dozen times, so you come home to escape into some fantasy and the female characters are getting gratuitously raped in scenes that do nothing to further either character or plot development. #nottoosensitive #whyimpissed

 

[Manticore]

You just called all men rapists.

No she did not.

 

[Pingfah]

This got surreal.

Guy, you seem to be suggesting that they should just be able to shrug this off because the dynamics of catcalling and street harrassment are much simpler than they think. But they aren't. You can't just isolate these behaviours and deal with them individually, the problem is with our whole society, not just a few assholes on the street.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Again, it's from the perspective of being a man, where this sort of thing doesn't happen regularly and if or when it might happen it's not from a position where you're vulnerable and scared of the possible reactions. So why worry about it? But the fact is men aren't women and don't have to put up with this shit all of them time in the omnipresent sense of danger that comes with knowing that this particular guy might be the one who becomes violent.

 

[Amaris]

If someone started cat-calling me, it would flip my world upside down. Cat-calls are not compliments. The cat-caller in question has no desire to get to know the object of their harassment. They have no intention of treating that object as a person.

So if I were cat-called, I would feel very uncomfortable with that. Being objectified is not a pleasant experience. When you're an object, you're not a person, and when you're not a person, you don't have rights. You don't have those thoughts and feelings to be considered.

That should be a simple, easy-to-understand statement. It should be something upon which we can all agree.

Yet here we are, trying to convince men, as a whole, that women aren't sexual vending machines.

 

[Chekov's Phaser]

The closest analogy for me to conceptualize what it's like to be a woman walking around would be walking in a dangerous neighborhood. You're going to be mindful, alert, and fearful of your surroundings. Only for women it's like almost every place is a dangerous neighborhood. I can't imagine haven't to have that level of anxiety every where I go. It's makes me sad for women and angry at men who can't grasp the idea.

 

[Pingfah]

If someone started cat-calling me, it would flip my world upside down. Cat-calls are not compliments. The cat-caller in question has no desire to get to know the object of their harassment. They have no intention of treating that object as a person.

So if I were cat-called, I would feel very uncomfortable with that. Being objectified is not a pleasant experience. When you're an object, you're not a person, and when you're not a person, you don't have rights. You don't have those thoughts and feelings to be considered.

I'm fine with it, it has happened more than once. But being objectified by a stranger is quite exciting when you don't have to deal with it every day, when it can happen in any situation, when it can be a genuine threat, or when you have to see it happen to another man every time you open a magazine or turn on the TV.

 

[Guy Gardener]

When did say that anyone deserves a free pass?

That is a lie.

Don't use the word omnipresent if you don't mean it.

 

[JD]

If someone started cat-calling me, it would flip my world upside down. Cat-calls are not compliments. The cat-caller in question has no desire to get to know the object of their harassment. They have no intention of treating that object as a person.

If cat-callers were actually interested in getting the know the object of their harassment as a person, they would actually take the time to actually walk up to them and have a conversation, not scream random creepy shit on the street.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Don't use the word omnipresent if you don't mean it.

Objectification is omnipresent. That doesn't mean that everybody does it. It just means you can find it everywhere and women encounter it in all kinds of contexts. It is omnipresent in the sense that it is a systemic problem in society as a whole. And not just isolated individual incidents.

I can't decide if you really misunderstood this concept so much or deliberately misrepresented it.

Are you just going to discuss semantics instead of owning up to the disgusting things you wrote?

So. Tedious.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Objectification is omnipresent. That doesn't mean that everybody does it. It just means you can find it everywhere and women encounter it in all kinds of contexts.

Are you just going to discuss semantics instead of owning up to the disgusting things you wrote?

So. Tedious.

Of course he is. He is Guy. Applying any level of logic to him doesn't work and with his shtick he can shift arguments any time and be justified by grace of being Guy.

 

[thestrangequark]

When did say that anyone deserves a free pass?


Don't use the word omnipresent if you don't mean it.

She said "sexual objectification is omnipresent," later qualifying that phrase as a statement about society. It was clear as day. How does that translate to "all men are rapists"? Justify this statement. And do so while remembering that I was gracious enough to give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you meant men were lucky I didn't hurt them and not that I was lucky they didn't do more to me when you wrote: "Our friend was not dehumanized, or turned into an object (I hope.).

If they could do that, than that would be power.

These are just morons on the street yelling at a young woman.

(Which is a very bad thing.)

If anything thing, TSQ is enboldend or furious, and lucky they didn't get got."

@Chekov's Phaser To demonstrate how you exist with that level of anxiety but aren't actually overly sensitive, someone coined the term "The Hum" -- and I wish I could remember who it was/where I heard or read it, but a quick bit of googling isn't helping. Anyway, The Hum is all the inner dialogue a woman has when she goes out: "Will this outfit get too much attention?" "Will this skirt send the wrong message?" "Is he going to touch me?" "Will it be dark when I leave so that I have to take a different way home?" "Are there going to be other women there?" "Should I go down that street alone?" "If I confront him, will he hurt me?"

It's always there, but it's in the background. I guess, having grown up in an earthquake prone and volcanic region I can relate it to that: you always know that the big one might hit or blow, but it's in the back of your mind. The difference is that with The Hum there are tremors every day.

 

[BigJake]

Of course he is. He is Guy. Applying any level of logic to him doesn't work and with his shtick he can shift arguments any time and be justified by grace of being Guy.

"The grace of being Guy" only applies when Guy is actually being semi-amusing or zany or halfway interesting. The Guy currently forcing their foot down their digestive tract in this thread, not so much.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Oh.

Sorry.

It should have been

"If anything thing, TSQ is enboldend or furious, and they are lucky they didn't get got."

I usually have to edit my posts 10 times before they make sense.

I was hopefully optimistic that you were not hurt or scarred. That seems to be in error.

I have to ignore people when they are mean to me because I have a temper.

I'm sorry you can't do the same thing.