Scientific Accuracy in Tv and Films

[Timewalker]

Yeah, I know, but tell that to George Lucas! Honestly, I'm not sure how he came up with the idea for using that word in that context, but maybe he just thought it sounded cool.

Fun fact: The reason the novelization of the movie is good is because it was really written by Alan Dean Foster. Lucas can't write worth green beans (which are disgusting and not real food).

I'd have to look it up in my copy to see if the "parsecs" line is in there. Foster at least is scientifically literate.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Fun fact: The reason the novelization of the movie is good is because it was really written by Alan Dean Foster. Lucas can't write worth green beans (which are disgusting and not real food).

I'd have to look it up in my copy to see if the "parsecs" line is in there. Foster at least is scientifically literate.

Foster's novelization says the Millennium Falcon made the Kessel Run in less than 12 "standard time units" instead of "parsecs."

https://www.cultureslate.com/news/what-exactly-are-parsecs-and-how-do-they-work

 

[Owain Taggart]

Fun fact: The reason the novelization of the movie is good is because it was really written by Alan Dean Foster. Lucas can't write worth green beans (which are disgusting and not real food).

I'd have to look it up in my copy to see if the "parsecs" line is in there. Foster at least is scientifically literate.

I read that years ago. In fact, the novelization of the trilogy, but I can't remember if the two others were done by different authors or not. I also can't remember if "parsecs" was in it, but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't, seeing as there was a lot of stuff in it that was different based off an earlier script.. For instance, instead of lightsabers, if I remember right, they call them laser swords.

 

[Silvercrest]

Hi!
First, Fantastic Voyage, there miniaturized, and there was a time limit of 60 minutes before everything that was miniaturized would naturally begin to grow to full size. They followed this with the people, and supposedly the Proteus was desolved by the immune system so it wouldn't regrow?. Now, what happens to the 10 gallons of water that was injected with the proteus? that water would naturally embiggen as well right??

The book addressed a similar concern with the air leak: That the volume of air was greater than the patient's body and would kill him when it re-expanded. (ewww)

The answer was that the air molecules were so small that they'd just slip out between the cells, and practically all of the air would be out of the body by the expansion deadline. Don't remember about the water either way, but perhaps there was a similar explanation.

For the movie to forget that the Proteus was left behind in the body (dissolved or not) was a much bigger goof. So to speak.

 

[Timewalker]

I read that years ago. In fact, the novelization of the trilogy, but I can't remember if the two others were done by different authors or not. I also can't remember if "parsecs" was in it, but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't, seeing as there was a lot of stuff in it that was different based off an earlier script.. For instance, instead of lightsabers, if I remember right, they call them laser swords.

I don't think ADF did the others, but I don't remember reading who did.

ADF wrote an original Star Wars novel, though: Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, I know, but tell that to George Lucas! Honestly, I'm not sure how he came up with the idea for using that word in that context, but maybe he just thought it sounded cool.

That's all Hollywood is...it sounds cool, looks cool, etc.

 

[Owain Taggart]

ADF wrote an original Star Wars novel, though: Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

I've heard of it, but haven't read it. Hmm, just got a new Kindle, I wonder if maybe the older novels are available on there.

That's all Hollywood is...it sounds cool, looks cool, etc.

Yep, pretty much what I figured. Sounds cool and far out. I'm sure they must have reminded him of the real definition at some point. But IMHO, doesn't matter all that much to me, as the minute I encounter lightsabers, I stop expecting realism.

I take more issue with something like Armageddon which is pure hollywood fantasy that doesn't even bother getting any facts right at the expense of being a visual tentpole. Deep Impact was a much better movie that at least tried to convey realism and science.

 

[fireproof78]

I take more issue with something like Armageddon which is pure hollywood fantasy that doesn't even bother getting any facts right at the expense of being a visual tentpole. Deep Impact was a much better movie that at least tried to convey realism and science.

I think there is a balance to the approach. I don't expect realism from Hollywood-period. My wife and I usually get a good chuckle about things that are strongly set up as realistic and then have over the top action scenes. That's what we experience with Hollywood, and, to my mind, that's OK. The art of entertainment in storytelling is the ability to engage the audience, not give them a lesson in science.

 

[Owain Taggart]

There definitely is a balance, and I think many indie movies often do a better job because they're not restrained to try and wow people over with special effects. But I do think it's possible to have both realism and spectacle. It just may be lower-key.

 

[fireproof78]

There definitely is a balance, and I think many indie movies often do a better job because they're not restrained to try and wow people over with special effects. But I do think it's possible to have both realism and spectacle. It just may be lower-key.

Of course it's possible, but it all comes down to time, money and talent. There's an old saying in Hollywood (at least from a VFX friend of mine): "you can have it done right, you can have done fast, you can have done under budget. And you usually only two out of the three." On time and under budget is more important that accurate.

 

[Owain Taggart]

Again, depends on what they're shooting for. I personally think there's room for both types of movies. If you're making a historical movie like Apollo 13, for instance, you don't want to glance on the details. Rather, you want to lean into them and be as accurate as possible, all the while making an entertaining movie.

 

[Timewalker]

Of course it's possible, but it all comes down to time, money and talent. There's an old saying in Hollywood (at least from a VFX friend of mine): "you can have it done right, you can have done fast, you can have done under budget. And you usually only two out of the three." On time and under budget is more important that accurate.

I know that alterations have to be made for the sake of budget, since that influenced what I could do when I worked backstage in musical theatre (usually on the properties crew, but I spent one show on the costume crew).

I had to explain to the director that even though the script for Gypsy called for a monkey and a goldfish, we couldn't have either of them. She was clueless as to why, so I had to explain that I was pretty sure the nearest zoo would not let us have a monkey, and neither I nor my assistant had any intention of looking after a goldfish for 3 weeks. We had to make substitutions (ending up with a dog and rabbit).

The same director had to be told for Peter Pan that no, we could not have a real fireworks-type bomb for Captain Hook to throw, because of safety issues (thankfully the fire department said no when I talked to them). I made a mockup with a styrofoam ball painted black and a string painted red. It worked fine. Ditto the safety concerns over arrows flying across the stage; one less-than-precisely aimed arrow and one person in the wrong place at the wrong time could be disastrous. We replaced the arrows with a line of dialogue.

Camelot was a different situation. I get why the armor was made of plastic; the actors and dancers were not trained in how to move in real armor. But at least when one of the breastplates came apart on stage, it was a much easier fix (done quickly during intermission; thank goodness for duct tape, staples, and glue guns; that thing held for the rest of the show's run).

And then there was the time in The King and I when one of the priests asked me to fix his costume (I was doing props that year but he couldn't find anyone on the costume crew). I didn't have a sewing kit on me that night (I did after that), so I stapled his costume and told him to get one of the seamstresses to fix it ASAP because the staples would irritate his skin.


So improvisation happens. But I tried my hardest not to make it obvious to the audience that script changes had to happen, Lancelot's armor was fixed with anything I could grab during intermission, and an actor was stapled into his costume. Even the duct tape job on a broken goblet in Jesus Christ Superstar held up to having liquid poured into it during the Last Supper scene (a stagehand broke it and we had no spare).


Now if we want to talk about historical accuracy... yikes. I'll forgive it if the show doesn't pretend to be accurate. For instance, Merlin eats a tomato sandwich? Fine. The show is entertaining and doesn't get pretentious about itself, so I don't care about tomatoes. I rolled my eyes over Morgana's clearly anachronistic modern dress, but to be honest, it's the guys who are the eye candy in that show.

I won't forgive Reign, though. That show is an abomination that is only saved by Megan Follows. All else about it is utter crap.

 

[fireproof78]

Again, depends on what they're shooting for. I personally think there's room for both types of movies. If you're making a historical movie like Apollo 13, for instance, you don't want to glance on the details. Rather, you want to lean into them and be as accurate as possible, all the while making an entertaining movie.

I won't hold inaccurate details against a film.

 

[NCC-73515]

It was nice that DS9 paid attention to the miniaturization problems and had them beam a pocket of mini air into the circuitry box where Julian and Miles had to repair something, cause regular air molecules would be too big for them. Innerspace IIRC also did everything right.
The worst sentence I remember right now is from Prometheus: They have a mummified, and therefore absolutely dead head, and say they have to stimulate the LC to "trick the brain into thinking it's alive". Many people in the cinema moaned and groaned, not just my group.

 

[Non Sync]

The book addressed a similar concern with the air leak: That the volume of air was greater than the patient's body and would kill him when it re-expanded. (ewww)

The answer was that the air molecules were so small that they'd just slip out between the cells, and practically all of the air would be out of the body by the expansion deadline. Don't remember about the water either way, but perhaps there was a similar explanation.

For the movie to forget that the Proteus was left behind in the body (dissolved or not) was a much bigger goof. So to speak.

It's been literally decades since I read the original Fantastic Voyage, but it seems the wreckage of the Proteus was removed along with the crew.

 

[Silvercrest]

It's been literally decades since I read the original Fantastic Voyage, but it seems the wreckage of the Proteus was removed along with the crew.

In the book it was. My reference was to the movie, which forgot about it.

 

[Non Sync]

In the book it was. My reference was to the movie, which forgot about it.

Sometimes, movies need to simplify things. Either it's "little" things like the Proteus or whole subplots. The book Jaws had Hooper having an affair with Sherrif Brody's wife. The movie worked much better without it.

 

[Timewalker]

Sometimes, movies need to simplify things. Either it's "little" things like the Proteus or whole subplots. The book Jaws had Hooper having an affair with Sherrif Brody's wife. The movie worked much better without it.

True. In the movie Contact (based on Carl Sagan's novel), the relationship between Ellie and Palmer Joss was completely different. There was no romance in the novel, no sex, and they were frenemies at best until the ending, when both of them finally understood where the other was coming from. And Ellie's mother was still alive in the novel; there was a subplot about her parents that was distracting, and it's best that the movie didn't go there. The novel did a cool thing with the character of S. R. Haddon, which people familiar with Assyrian history would have noticed immediately, but non-history buffs wouldn't have. The movie didn't go into that.

I did like that the movie made the point that Vega is too young to have planets with advanced life on them (if it has planets at all yet; as stars go, it's still a baby and won't live long due to its mass).

 

[Owain Taggart]

won't hold inaccurate details against a film.

And nor should you.

But personally, I feel it changes based on the context of what I'm watching. I feel there are different categories. Fantasy and Superhero movies would fall into the fantastical category. They're never going to realistic, and to expect them to adhere to science is futile as they play fast and loose, often creating their own rules for existing.

But if you're making a movie about something specific, that deals with some actual science-related endeavor, historical or otherwise, then yes, you better believe I expect it to be well-researched, as the details or lack of can undermine a movie. If a movie starts to spew nonsense all the while claiming to be definitive, yeah, I'm gonna notice. There's a time and place for everything. It's interesting that in fiction you have the label of hard sci-fi, where you know what you can expect going in

 

[Timewalker]

It's interesting that in fiction you have the label of hard sci-fi, where you know what you can expect going in

Some things have elements of more than one subgenre, though. I consider C.J. Cherryh's Alliance-Union series to be both space opera and hard science, as you'd better believe that relativity, gravity, mass, and other physics-related concepts matter. Her novel Cyteen is a masterpiece of weaving multiple scientific disciplines together to explain how that world works, and how it functions in a broader society where elections take years due to the limitations of how fast messages can travel by ship between star stations, and how merchant ships take a risk every time they choose cargo for their next destination because of the effects of relativity; a few months for them would be years to the stations they dock at to sell their cargo.