Sci-fi vs Sci-Fantasy

[Hypaspist]

Star Trek is "soft" because it doesn't pay much attention to plausibility. Warp drive and transporter beaming aside, things like splitting a person in two to make a Jeckle-Hyde pair, pixie eared aliens who look just like us but are based on different biology yet can breed with humans, FTL telepathy, and the sequel series' endless parade of ____yon particles of week are not based on much that's scientifically plausible at all. It's not science fantasy, though.

That works for me. I look at it more as a platform for telling good stories in, with a general emphasis on starship combat.
I think it just sort of irritates me that there are so many inconsistencies that ignore the things that were plausible in TOS. What was worse was when those inconsistencies became the formula.

One of the things that made Dune and Ringworld so great was that they laid down the rules, so you can really get a good picture of what is and is not possible in their respective universes.

 

[Tim Walker]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceFantasy

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceOpera

There is a certain irony regarding Trek as hard science fiction. Warp drive should be pure handwavium. But Miguel Alcuberre, a physicist, determined that there is a theoretical basis-a comcept named the Alcubierre warp drive.

 

[Isolinear]

Stranger than Fiction and Liar Liar are Fantasy.
Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones are High Fantasy.
Star Trek and Avatar are Science Fantasy.
Star Wars and Dune are Science/High Fantasy hybrids.

Deep Impact and Gravity are Hard Science Fiction.
Black Mirror, 1984 and Her are Social Science Fiction.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The science in science fiction is fantasy science. It's stuff we can't do, don't have a real explanation for in the story, and are asked to take on as fact. Fly faster than the speed of light. Transporters. Slingshot 'round the sun for time travel. None of this makes it any less science fiction rather that is what makes it science fiction in the first place. SCIENCE that is FICTION.

The root of the term 'Science fiction' though was used to apply to plausible science that doesn't exist yet. Like in the 19th century a novel about taking a rocket to the moon was 'Science fiction'. It's only recently that 'Science fiction' meant 'Fictional science'.

@Isolinear

Star Wars is a Space Western.

 

[Tim Walker]

The TV tropes article indicates that a given show can straddle definitions of genres/subgenres. Examples include Firefly as both space opera and horse opera, and Aliens as both space opera and sic fi horror. Star Trek has been somewhat versatile, tending to straddle both space opera and science fantasy; also, specific episodes may focus on comedy or court room
drama or what have you.

I can see the "space opera" part evolving towards the New Space Opera; one reason is that warp drive now has an actual basis in theory. Another reason is a comment I came across awhile back, that except for Artificial Intelligence (AI), Information Technology (IT) had overtaken Star Trek. Trek may have to scramble to keep up with the 21st century, to modernize. There was a glimpse of this in Into Darkness-the Heads Up Display (HUD) inside the helmets of the space suits.

 

[Cyke101]

The TV tropes article indicates that a given show can straddle definitions of genres/subgenres. Examples include Firefly as both space opera and horse opera, and Aliens as both space opera and sic fi horror. Star Trek has been somewhat versatile, tending to straddle both space opera and science fantasy; also, specific episodes may focus on comedy or court room drama or what have you.

Yep. I feel that there are several times where, when Trek straddles the genre line, it actually moves closer to hard sci-fi. The Measure of a Man is a courtroom drama (and I think Riker's conflict between personal and professional is excellent), but since it's about technology and humanity in the form of Data's rights, in a way edges more to sci-fi rather than fantasy. It's not really handwavium like warp drive if the characters have to sit, evaluate and discuss it at length, and change from it.

This is probably a good reason why Star Trek exists better as a TV show than a film series. The episodic format allows for moree variety to straddle genres more intently and more fleshed out, rather than just putting in a genre and just adding "...in SPACE!" at the end.

 

[Tim Walker]

BTW, Star Trek has also been http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science_fiction.

 

[Cyke101]

BTW, Star Trek has also been http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science_fiction.

...aka "soft science fiction" according to the first line, and so that's probably going to be my preferred description of Star Trek myself.

 

[Tim Walker]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness

 

[T'Girl]

The concept of "tropes" is vastly over-rated.

 

[Memory Alpha]

Science fiction provides a commentary on contemporary society and culture in a way that fantasy and sci-fi-fantasy does not. Science fiction also imagines where technology and knowledge might take people and what the impacts will be. Fantasy is more in the action genre, only it concerns unbelievable or unrealistic action and adventure in an unrealistic setting. It's unfortunate that in recent times the two have blended together so much.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It's unfortunate that in recent times the two have blended together so much.

I disagree completely with this.

 

[xavier]

thor of the marvel films is the best science fantasy series that I have seen in a long time.

 

[Tim Walker]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreBusting Please note the comments regarding different television shows, particularly Star Trek.

 

[Tim Walker]

I think that Lost worked well in its first season, combining a gritty survival story/drama with the surreal. Something that has to be done carefully, otherwise the show will jump the shark. I stopped watching partway through the second season, because the show was no longer working for me.

 

[Tim Walker]

This is probably a good reason why Star Trek exists better as a TV show than a film series. The episodic format allows for moree variety to straddle genres more intently and more fleshed out, rather than just putting in a genre and just adding "...in SPACE!" at the end.

The Cage was turned into a two parter. I think you could have a very short arc, in effect.

 

[Memory Alpha]

It's unfortunate that in recent times the two have blended together so much.

I disagree completely with this.

It's just personal preference.

I'll take H.G. Wells over Lord of the Rings any day all day, to reference the extremes.

I was never interested in fantasy and only ever had a very passing interest in Star Wars. However, I have always enjoyed Star Trek, Alien, 2001: ASO.

 

[Tim Walker]

Thinking about Lost.... If handled very carefully (avoiding jumping the shark), I think Trek's science fantasy element could include slipstream, and even magic realism.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

People tend to see fantasy as meaning "An adventure show set in the past" and scifi as meaning "An adventure show set in the future" regardless of the kind of stories that are actually being told within the setting.

To me Lost is clearly in the "Fantasy" category, and the only reason people call it scifi is that the magic is attributed to theoretical science.

 

[Tim Walker]

Yeah, mainstream society probably uses short hand to pigeon hole genre fiction. Missing the subtleties because they aren't into it in the first place.