Say something critical about a fan favorite episode

[Eddie Roth]

Wasn't this thread simply about saying something critical about an episode? That doesn't mean we have to prove the entire episode is bad, does it?

Right, that's the general idea. With the two sides of our brains we can hold seemingly opposing thoughts at the same, after all. For instance, my example here would be "The Visitor", which may be my favorite Trek episode ever, bar none. It's beyond excellent and one of the great TV episodes of all-time, IMO. But the criticism is twofold:

• reset button: it never happened. Unavoidable in this case, but unfortunate because it seemed like this alternate life of Jake's never had the future impact on characterization that it should've had, much like Picard in "Inner Light" or O'Brien in "Hard Time".
• A Jake episode with no Jake. Technically (TECHNICALLY!) they could've given Cirroc Lofton the challenge to play Old Jake in make-up. Who knows how that might've worked out, and a good deal of why this episode is so emotionally powerful is due to Tony Todd, who could also play middle-aged Jake with no makeup on, but it is... strange that THE BEST episode for this character hardly showcases the character's regular actor.

So I suppose it's that kind of critical look we're aiming for here, not 'proof' that a favorite episode is actually 'bad'.

 

[Mudd]

"The Trouble With Tribbles" isn't that funny, but it's fun the first time you watch it.

 

[Oddish]

The ending of Trouble With Tribbles also makes a bad pun out of what was undoubtedly a scene of extreme cruelty to animals. You think the Klingons were nice to the Tribbles that wound up on their ship?

 

[F. King Daniel]

"In a Mirror, Darkly" is a waste of time following people who are entirely unlikeable and who I didn't give a toss about, but everyone likes it because TOS CONNIE and CLASSIC UNIFORMS.

Picard's third season took note

 

[fireproof78]

In a Mirror, Darkly" is a waste of time following people who are entirely unlikeable and who I didn't give a toss about, but everyone likes it because TOS CONNIE and CLASSIC UNIFORMS.

That's not why I like it.

 

[Annorax849]

Tapestry has two themes/messages going on, and they’re sort of in conflict at some point.

 

[NCC-73515]

• A Jake episode with no Jake. Technically (TECHNICALLY!) they could've given Cirroc Lofton the challenge to play Old Jake in make-up. Who knows how that might've worked out, and a good deal of why this episode is so emotionally powerful is due to Tony Todd, who could also play middle-aged Jake with no makeup on, but it is... strange that THE BEST episode for this character hardly showcases the character's regular actor.

I cannot imagine a teen (wasn't he?) convincingly playing an old man with convincing makeup.

(I personally have no problem with Miles' recuperation happening off-screen) There's another time that (IMO) DS9 skipped over a major change. In Doctor Bashir, I Presume, O'Brien and Sisko find out that Bashir has been genetically altered. But we never see the first reaction of any of the other crew. Not in this episode, and not in any subsequent ones. The show just jumps straight to the new status quo. Not that I'd expect fireworks, but it's a character beat and DS9 is usually good at showing those.

Probably because no one had a problem with it. They do mention it every time he uses his 'powers' though, only to let causal viewers know who missed that episode

Me either. It always bothered me that Picard was sacrificing hundreds of lives on what was basically a feeling Guinan had. Yes, she was right, but how could he know that?

The big factor there was that they were about to lose the war, and the alternative was dying in battle with the Klingons just a little later.

 

[Oddish]

reset button: it never happened. Unavoidable in this case, but unfortunate because it seemed like this alternate life of Jake's never had the future impact on characterization that it should've had, much like Picard in "Inner Light" or O'Brien in "Hard Time".

The problem with the Reset Button is not its use, but its overuse. For every awe-inspiring effort that only said button could allow ("The Visitor", "Year of Hell"), there's an episode that it trashes ("Tuvix", "Real Life", "Favorite Son").

Jake episode with no Jake. Technically (TECHNICALLY!) they could've given Cirroc Lofton the challenge to play Old Jake in make-up. Who knows how that might've worked out, and a good deal of why this episode is so emotionally powerful is due to Tony Todd, who could also play middle-aged Jake with no makeup on, but it is... strange that THE BEST episode for this character hardly showcases the character's regular actor.

No issues here. Cirroc Lofton holds his own while it works to have him as Jake, then hands the reins to Tony Todd when it would be harder for him to pull off. The episode works because of both of them, and Avery Brooks of course.

Tapestry has two themes/messages going on, and they’re sort of in conflict at some point.

My issue with "Tapestry" is that Picard was a competent and intelligent officer. A man of his skills would not top out at LTJG. A lieutenant commander counting beans at an obscure starbase would make more sense.

Also... if Picard WAS so forgettable that he couldn't get himself above LTJG in 35 years, how'd he get a posting on the Enterprise? A guy like that would be Cerritos fodder at best.

And also... Picard is known to have handpicked many of that crew. So if he never got above JG... why are they together?

 

[drt]

"In a Mirror, Darkly" is a waste of time following people who are entirely unlikeable and who I didn't give a toss about, but everyone likes it because TOS CONNIE and CLASSIC UNIFORMS.

Heh, my teenage daughter, who likes most Star Trek, never wanted to watch Enterprise, until one day she said something about how all of the characters were evil and unlikable, and it dawned on me that the only one she had happened to see at that point was "In a Mirror, Darkly", and she though that is what the show was about.

 

[Tosk]

Who knows how that might've worked out, and a good deal of why this episode is so emotionally powerful is due to Tony Todd, who could also play middle-aged Jake with no makeup on, but it is... strange that THE BEST episode for this character hardly showcases the character's regular actor.

It's a sure bet that if Cirroc played Jake in every scene the episode would have suffered. No offence to Cirroc at all, but in terms of age and acting ability Todd had him beat. (And I especially liked that Todd made sure to include little bits of how Cirroc plays Jake in his performance.) Heck, even Jadzia and Julian's age make-up pulls at the fabric of the ep just a little bit.

Also... if Picard WAS so forgettable that he couldn't get himself above LTJG in 35 years, how'd he get a posting on the Enterprise? A guy like that would be Cerritos fodder at best.

And also... Picard is known to have handpicked many of that crew. So if he never got above JG... why are they together?

It's a Q fantasy.

 

[Joanna McCoy-Kirk]

"The City on the Edge of Forever" is really just a tear-jerker; I refused to watch it for years because of that aspect.

 

[Vger23]

In "The Doomsday Machine" it should have been much easier and more obvious to remove Commodore Decker from command given his obvious compromised emotional condition and PTSD.

 

[Farscape One]

In "The Doomsday Machine" it should have been much easier and more obvious to remove Commodore Decker from command given his obvious compromised emotional condition and PTSD.

I hate to admit this about one of my two absolute favorite episodes of TOS... but that IS a valid point.

 

[Vger23]

I hate to admit this about one of my two absolute favorite episodes of TOS... but that IS a valid point.

It's probably my favorite episode of the entire franchise...but hey...nobody's perfect...!

 

[Oddish]

Couple of issues...

"The Thaw". Some guy gets guillotined in the VR world, so he dies from fear. Basically, he dies of a terror-induced heart attack. So why doesn't the EMH rush him off to sickbay and revive him? A 20th century era defilibrator could handle that.

"Similitude": This one gives me "Assassin's Creed" flashbacks, given that it insists that a person's memories are encoded into their genes... honorable mention here to all those Weyouns, each of whom seems to remember everything their predecessors did.

 

[bdub76]

The film filters in the City on the Edge of Forever are a bit much.

 

[Vger23]

"Space Seed" it's kind of ridiculous how Kirk beats Khan in the final brawl.

 

[Oddish]

"Shadows and Symbols"... you have to wonder if it's really ethical for a Doctor to randomly match an untrained, un-evaluated Trill with a symbiont, despite the extremis of the situation. It's long understood that an improper joining can cause permanent damage to both parties.

 

[Farscape One]

"Space Seed" it's kind of ridiculous how Kirk beats Khan in the final brawl.

Not really. Even a superhuman can get beaten with a few tool hits in the right places.

 

[fireproof78]

"Space Seed" it's kind of ridiculous how Kirk beats Khan in the final brawl.

I found it more ridiculous that Kirk provided him access to any of the archives without knowing more about him first.