Saucer Separation

[nonbelligerency]

I seem to remember a behind the screens revelation that the producers/whoever wanted the Enterprise D to separate during every battle scene. After learning how time consuming it was to separate the models, film and put it all together, this idea was abandoned.

Did I imagine this or has someone else heard of this?

 

[Reaper63]

no, I heard the same thing, it just took the viewer out of the action from what I heard

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Like Voyager's movable nacelles, it was a cool new thing, only like you said, more time consuming.

 

[Hnic]

I think that early on Picard was worried about loss of life since he lost the stargazer but as time went on they realized the saucer is a formidable weapon and power source. Think "best of both worlds"

 

[Marc]

I seem to remember a behind the screens revelation that the producers/whoever wanted the Enterprise D to separate during every battle scene. After learning how time consuming it was to separate the models, film and put it all together, this idea was abandoned.

Did I imagine this or has someone else heard of this?

Not sure about the time to seperate the model - after all that's what stock footage is for but iirc it was more about slowing the story telling down.

Though I'm sure they could short cut - have dialogue about doing a sauce sep, next scene and our heroes are fighting the enemy from the battle bridge.

Just a thought though. If there were more sauce seperations I guess it would mean more battle bridge scenes - so would they have had to built a standing set? While the cost of the set construction could be covered over a number of eps, they might not have had the sound stage space.

While the set could be taken up and down as needed, long term that could have beem more expensive (assembly time, plus wear and tear from being put up and taken down that would have be repaired).

 

[Mojochi]

I don't think episode time constraints are as big a concern as everyone makes out. Eventually, you just make a comment, & then BAM, the next scene is a battle bridge scene. It's a tv show

I personally just think the benefits of separating only worked for certain circumstances, and in world time factors made it an obstacle to action & suspense in most others. Plus... the ship looked like crap without the saucer. It's a tv show. If you tune in, in the middle of an episode, to a space battle, you might stop to watch... unless the ship doesn't look like the Enterprise. "Then you're like what the crap is that ugly thing?"

The look of the ship is signature to the show

 

[Timo]

I guess the VFX alone would not play a role in this "slowing down the story" thing. As said, they could use arbitrarily short bits of footage - there are establishing shots of the starship between the bits of drama anyway - or skip exterior visuals altogether.

But there's something to be said for not using the separation trick. After all, it involves quite a bit of deliberation. Should we drop the saucer now or later? Should it be dropped here or elsewhere? Is it safe now to come back for it? The ship would also usually literally have to backtrack in order to meet with the saucer again, while going forward is the dramatically more appealing choice.

The writers sort of used up their dialogue options in "Heart of Glory" where Riker wonders whether the saucer should be separated and Picard says it's too soon as they don't know yet what they are facing. That basically covers all the angles: it's always going to be too early or too late, and there's little point discussing the latter case because it will only make the heroes look bad.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mytran]

Early concepts had a section of the ship (the Bridge and a portion of the saucer, presumably) separating as an individual fighting machine instead. Later it was nixed in favour of having that entire saucer split off, but that would have settled the problem of the additional Bridge set at least!

 

[Lance]

Like Voyager's movable nacelles, it was a cool new thing, only like you said, more time consuming.

This. Like the moveable nacelles, or Voyager being able to land on planets, 'saucer sepper' was one of those "This Is A Cool Idea, Let's Show The Ship Doing X!" things, which new shows do once or twice to show that they can be done, but which are too impractical to actually do often, except on very special occasions.

I do think they probably could have done the saucer seperation more often than they did, as I suspect there was plenty of stock footage taken of the models in 'sepper mode' during the original ILM shooting sessions for the pilot. But the real problem was that it was a narrative time-killer as much as anything else. It slowed down the storytelling too much, because suddenly you have to account for two ships instead of one. That's okay for something like The Best Of Both Worlds where it's an "event episode", but it's less applicable to your average week-to-week.

Also, if they found the ILM stock footage didn't cover the practical needs of the weekly episode in question, then they'd have had to get the large version of the Enterprise model out of storage to shoot the new scenes (as the smaller shooting models couldn't do the seperation). All of that is time and money.

If TNG had been born in the era of CGI, then I honestly reckon the saucer sepper would have been a more frequent occurence, without question. I mean, we even know of several occasions where it got discussed at the story breakdown stage, but got shot down on impractical grounds (the infamous one being the idea of ending season six on the cliffhanger of the saucer having to make emergency landing on a planet, which eventually got held over for Generations instead).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Early concepts had a section of the ship (the Bridge and a portion of the saucer, presumably) separating as an individual fighting machine instead. Later it was nixed in favour of having that entire saucer split off, but that would have settled the problem of the additional Bridge set at least!

They could have used the same bridge set for both. Different lighting, perhaps?

 

[Mytran]

Using the Main Bridge as the Battle Bridge (literally the same room, in universe) would have solved half the problems raised here, which stem from the fact that the TMP Bridge set was mostly rebuilt / unavailable throughout most of TNG's run. It got reused as so many other sets that there was virtually nothing left of it after BOBW.

Give the saucer it's own control room and let the command crew stay in their own bridge without having to ride an elevator in the middle of a crisis. Yes you'd have to remove the Main Bridge from its "hood ornament" position atop the saucer, but where's the big deal with that? Bury the damn thing as deep as you can!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Yes you'd have to remove the Main Bridge from its "hood ornament" position atop the saucer, but where's the big deal with that? Bury the damn thing as deep as you can!

If you're worried about the bridge being taken out by weapons fire because it's so high up on the saucer: It's not the job of the ship's hull to protect the bridge. That's what shields are for. Any attack powerful enough to punch through a ship's shields can also take out the bridge, no matter where it is.

As for the battle bridge, I wasn't suggesting that the main and battle bridges be literally the same room (in-universe), I'm not even sure how they could pull that off. I just suggested that they use the same SET for both. Creative lighting, maybe a few quickly installed/removed set panels, can do wonders.

 

[kirkfan]

Like Voyager's movable nacelles, it was a cool new thing, only like you said, more time consuming.

Yeah, aerodynamism in space...

 

[Timo]

Finding rationalizations for nonsensical starship features, and then failing to capitalize on those, appears to have been part of Trek from the get-go.

The TOS ship wasn't allowed to be a flying saucer (because those were sooo 1950s), but it got a saucer hull nevertheless. Fine, have it be a giant separable frisbee that lands on planets. Except that was nixed because planetfall was expensive to shoot. Fine, reserve that as an emergency maneuver, never to actually be seen. Except even the very potential never made it into dialogue...

At least the moving nacelles of Voyager were constantly used, making it into basically every going-to-warp scene even when the director could just have decided to skip going-to-warp establishing VFX altogether. Why they flapped like that, we never learned. But at least they didn't mysteriously stop doing it halfway through the first season. (Even though VOY would have had a perfect excuse for that - failure to find authorized repair shops in Delta!)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mytran]

It's not the job of the ship's hull to protect the bridge. That's what shields are for. Any attack powerful enough to punch through a ship's shields can also take out the bridge, no matter where it is.

On a ship the size of the TOS-E that is certainly true. A vessel the size of the E-D offers much greater protection from a piece of random fire flying in and puncturing that oh-so-vulnerable skylight of theirs! But really, that was only a side benefit of having a single main control centre for the ship (plus a navigation suite for the saucer in case of separation)

As for the battle bridge, I wasn't suggesting that the main and battle bridges be literally the same room (in-universe), I'm not even sure how they could pull that off. I just suggested that they use the same SET for both. Creative lighting, maybe a few quickly installed/removed set panels, can do wonders.

I agree and if the TMP Bridge hadn't been sitting there on the soundstage already I expect that is what they might have done. My idea was along different lines, wherein the Main Bridge is located in/on the secondary hull somewhere (as per your point above re external or internal location). After all, the secondary hull is the "business" part of the ship, the saucer being more dedicated to living quarters and recreation facilities. The Main Bridge really ought to be where the main ship functions are concentrated, not miles away on top of a luxury hotel (so to speak)

Looking at the original multi-storey concept drawings of the Bridge I can understand why it might be better off in the saucer. But the single deck room we eventually got would be just as much at home atop the "cobra head" with very little tweaking. The observation lounge windows could even peep out the back still!

 

[kirkfan]

The Saucer separation doesn't make any sense. In a combat situation the saucer is a much easier target and is likely to be fired upon the moment it separates from the other section. So basically it means luring away enemy fire by sacrificing your children. Yeah, great move!

 

[Wingsley]

The writers sort of used up their dialogue options in "Heart of Glory" where Riker wonders whether the saucer should be separated and Picard says it's too soon as they don't know yet what they are facing. That basically covers all the angles: it's always going to be too early or too late, and there's little point discussing the latter case because it will only make the heroes look bad.

Timo Saloniemi

Timo mentions an interchange between Picard and Riker at the very beginning of "Heart of Glory":

WORF: Captain! Communication from Starfleet! They have reported a disturbance in the Neutral Zone.

PICARD: Of what nature?

WORF: A battle! Quadrant nine, coordinates zero seven zero, mark three. There's no information who is involved. They are asking if we can investigate.

PICARD: Answer affirmative. Lieutenant La Forge, lay in the course.

LAFORGE: Aye, sir.

DATA: I have no reports of any Federation ships in that area, sir.

RIKER: Ferengi?

PICARD: It's a little out of their territory.

RIKER: Shall we separate the saucer?

PICARD: Let's get a little more information first.

LAFORGE: Course set, Captain.

PICARD: Speed, warp seven.

LAFORGE: Aye, sir, warp seven.

PICARD: Engage!

(A short flight later)

LAFORGE: We are now approaching the Neutral Zone.

The episode apparently takes place in close proximity, if not within, the Romulan Neutral Zone. If there had been Romulan activity nearby, a saucer jettison would free up the stardrive section to investigate and deal with it, but it would also make the saucer vulnerable if it should happen upon other hostile starships.

Still, the brief interchange between Riker and Picard seemed to just be more of an aside than a serious deliberation about actually separating. FWIW, I always took the notion of saucer separation to be a contingency that was situation-specific, not something they would automatically do.

Later on, when the Enterprise-D Bridge crew discovers the approach of a Klingon cruiser and hails them, there is this exchange:

(On the Bridge)

PICARD: Lieutenant Yar, where are they now?

TASHA: They're with Worf on deck seventeen.

PICARD: Deck seventeen?

TASHA: Yes, sir. Near the auxiliary turbolift to the battle bridge. Shall I alert Lieutenant Worf?

PICARD: No. Send a security team.

RIKER: You don't think Worf would allow them access to the battle bridge?

PICARD: I think, Number One, we cannot assume anything.

TASHA: Captain, shall I stay at my tactical position or lead the security team?

PICARD: Lead the security team, and, Lieutenant, you understand with whom you are dealing.

TASHA: Aye, sir.

(In one of the Enterprise-D's corridors...)

KORRIS: We have heard this ship can separate in time of battle.

WORF: Yes. When relieved of its bulk, the Enterprise becomes an exceptional weapon.

This, to me, suggests a couple of things:

First, it suggests that saucer separation is used as a military maneuver to allow the saucer to proactively separate safely away from a dangerous venue so that the stardrive section can preform whatever aggressive action is needed without disturbing operations within the saucer-hull.

Second, the notion of "bulk" comes into play. Apparently, Worf is suggesting that saucer separation relieves the stardrive section of "bulk", meaning the "bulk" of a Galaxy-class starship is in the saucer, not the stardrive section of the ship. (This plainly contradicts what Sternbach and Okuda asserted in the TNG Writer's Technical Manual, and later in their published TNG Tech Manual, about the stardrive section housing a huge volume of deuterium and antimatter for warp drive fuel.)

Also consider this exchange from "Heart of Glory":

(Enterprise-D's Main Engineering, Dilithium Crystal Chamber)

KORRIS: Brother, I knew you would come! (Worf climbs the ladder) Now I, we have a chance! I could not do it alone, but I would rather die here, than let the traitors of Kling pick the meat from my bones! With you it will work.

WORF: What will work?

KORRIS: I will demand Captain Picard give us access to the battle bridge. We will separate from the rest of the ship, then together we will light up the galaxy! Imagine the fear which will roll before us!

WORF: Captain Picard will not comply.

I quote this passage because it seems to reinforce the previous quote. Taken separately, it doesn't say much. But taken in the context of the episode and what Worf told Korris earlier, it seems to reinforce the notion that separation liberates the stardrive section to preform military tasks.


Now, consider this scene from the following episode, "Arsenal of Freedom":

(Logan enters the Main Bridge)

LAFORGE: We are getting out of here! Lieutenant Solis, set course three one five mark zero, zero seven!

SOLIS: Course set!

LOGAN: You are leaving them on the planet?!

LAFORGE: Speed warp five!

SOLIS: Warp five. Aye!

LAFORGE: Engage! Hold course and speed for twenty eight seconds, then come to a full stop. Mister Logan, had we stayed, we would have been destroyed. Now, there are over a thousand people on this ship. I have a responsibility to them.

LOGAN: What about your responsibility to Captain Picard and the members of the away team?

LAFORGE: I have a responsibility to them as well. Mister Logan, you are going to take command of the Saucer Section. Backup crew, report to the main Bridge.

LOGAN: You're going to separate?

LAFORGE: Yes, and I want you to take the saucer section and proceed immediately to Starbase one zero three.

LOGAN: You can't fight what you can't see, and you still won't be able to see that thing.

LAFORGE: Maybe we won't have to.

LOGAN: Risky.

LAFORGE: Yes. That's why we're going to separate. Worf, Solis, T'Su. Report to the Battle Bridge. I'll join you in a moment.

I added underlining for emphasis to show that LaForge's orders and rationale are designed to accomplish two things: (1: LaForge wants to remove the Enterprise-D from the battle scene before jettisoning the saucer; possibly outside of the Minosian star system... and (2: LaForge wants Logan to pilot the saucer to a starbase, just in case the Enterprise stardrive section does not succeed; LaForge is setting the saucer up to be a civilian escape vehicle.

There is one major flaw, though, in the notion of saucer separation: impulse power. Is a Galaxy-class saucer only capable of relatively low-speed maneuvers? Is it sublight-only? If so, how is Mr. Logan ever going to reach that starbase before the saucer's viability expires? The starship Defiant in DS9 shows us that Federation technology can build warp engines into an armored hull. If we assume that a Galaxy-class saucer actually has a pair of small warp nacelles built-into her saucer hull, then it is possible that Logan would be able to reach his base even if LaForge failed in his mission.

I bring this up because starships are supposed to be deep space vehicles. They fly, by definition, outside of their home space. Why would we not assume that a saucer-separation, under proper circumstances, would be a realistic strategy for a starship commander to employ while on the frontier?

 

[kirkfan]

If the saucer section is sublight speed only that means that wherever you are you likely won't get to any habitable planet before years have come and gone. The only hope is to be rescued by another ship and depending on where you are that could take years as well.

 

[tharpdevenport]

I'm glad the decision was made to not seperate it all the time. Aisde from the gimmick loosing it's special magic if done all the time, stock footage being used al lthe time would have worn it's welcome and made it seem more like TOS TV. Of course there wre certain composite iamges that were reused with different images behind it, like a different planet, but a battle is something special and you want to see something cool done, not the same shots you've seen before in the last battle with a saucer speration.


I wonder, on a side note, if the Enterprise D can jettison it's nacelles, like Kirk almsot did once or twice in the original series.

 

[Ithekro]

The bridge being on top of the vessel (or at minimum accessible from the outside) would make it easier to replace with new technologies, or jettison it as some sort of lifeboat. Having it deep within the hull and heavily protected would mean gutting the ship just to replace the bridge should the old one be obsolete or damaged.

Also, there really isn't a safe place on an unshielded starship from heavy weapons.