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Saucer separation. How does it work exactly?

I very much doubt there's any "simplicity of repairs thanks to interchangeability" built into the Galaxies: the odds of a starbase having the required spare for a Galaxy in need would be a flat zero unless the UFP engaged in an insane program of actually building a hundred and fifty non-flying Galaxies per each actually operational one and keeping them as spares for the rare breakdowns of the rare giant vessels. There might be a grand total of two spare warp cores around somewhere, to be flown to the point of breakdown in two weeks or whatever, but we see no sign of that, either: when the E-D gets a new core in "Phantasms", it looks subtly different from the old one.

Then again, the very concept of "spare" may be outdated in the replicator era. And this would outdate the concept of "compatibility", too, as the missing stem bolt or nacelle could be replicated in any required size or color.

Today's navies don't skip interchangeability because they would be run by greedy capitalists who eat panda pups for breakfast. They skip interchangeability because it's not feasible: you can't have the same sort of turbines in all ships*, even of the same class, and you can't maintain all ships to a common standard when they invent individualistic ways of breaking down. We know Starfleet is "worse" there, as no two ships are identical when we look close enough (due to various aspects of studio reality) except in certain artificial and rare situations of copy-pasting that actually generally try to hide off focus and therefore allow us to believe in the more realistic no-two-ships-are-identical model instead.

Timo Saloniemi

* Yes, partially because, even if you yourself are rational, the capitalists running the businesses that provide the turbines will backstab you at the drop of a panda pup and leave you high and dry, unless they fear this will benefit their competitors. But mainly because their businesses can fold for non-malicious reasons, too, or the subtle but fatal flaws in their products will only become evident with time. Starfleet won't have it any easier, relying on "key providers" so often (lose Janus VI, lose the fleet) and OTOH having to deal with alien and incompatible cultures rather than merely alien and incompatible business cultures all across the providing chain.
 
you can't have the same sort of turbines in all ships*
Indeed. I've been aboard two WWII-era Baleo-class submarines (the Pampanito in San Francisco, and the Bowfin in Honolulu), and their Diesel engines are completely different (Pampanito has F-M opposed-piston engines, while the Bowfin, as I recall, has GM V-16s)
 
Alternatively, even on small, factory-made devices, there are individual quirks. One of Apple's bragathon hardware videos mentioned that their assembly line includes a section where they laser scan each backplate and frontplate out of a batch, and match each one together to its best partner, finding the pairs where the deviations within manufacturing tolerances cancel each other out to make the tightest fit.

On a ship the size of a Galaxy, it would have to be a specific design choice for different pairs of saucers and stardrives to be interoperable, and would mean that section of the design has to be 100% locked. Which is certainly possible, but there's no good reason to declare it must be or the other until it comes up and we either find up that two different ships can swap saucers or they can't because the Yamato's port turboshaft is three meters forward of the Odyssey's thanks to a different arrangement of the phaser power couplings due to a modified design that makes it more efficient to rotate the frequency after it turned out that was a really important feature for phasers to have nowadays.
 
The 2370-set novel "Rogue Saucer" by John Vornholt depicts the fairly quick (saucer evacuation is under 5 minutes) and easy swapping of the saucer (including its new gel packs) from the Galaxy-class USS Bolivar with the saucer of the Enterprise-D. Section 2.7 of the Technical Manual refers to 18 active latches from the Battle Section and quick-disconnect umbilicals for all those things the two sections normally like to share like gas, liquid, plasma, turbolift cars, data channels, and chocolate pudding. Many do not consider novels and technical manuals as canon. They are still fun!
 
I would love to see instead of the typical saucer tbey attached a specialized version packed with heavy weapons and power generators to support them.

Define 'heavy weapons'.
I mean, the Galaxy saucer has pretty much omni-directional coverage and its phasers would have been upgraded with the times to rival those of state of the art ships.
So, not sure just how much more you can put on it (apart from perhaps a torpedo launcher).

As for power generators to support those... pretty sure that if SF modified the Galaxy saucer in such a manner it would be adequately shielded and powered... maybe it would be prudent to add a few Warp nacelles and a warp core for when the saucer is separated so it can be an independent ship (much like the Prometheus splits into 3 independent parts).
 
By heavy weapons I am thinking along the lines of that BFG mounted underneath the saucer in 'All Good Things'. You could also go the route of adding multiple photorp launchers in a variety of locations like what is found on tbe Akira- I know the torpedoes can go in different directions after firing, but flying the ship into an enemy fleet while firing a hundred in every direction at the same time...
The saucer is designed to be where the crew lives in comfort, conducts scientific research and shuttle support facilities. Build a module which has for it's primary the projection of overwhelming firepower with all the equipment to maintain it and replicate new torpedoes. I do like the idea of having some warp capability also. Having a separated two attack option would be very useful.
I can see anotber use- detach the weapons module and leave it in position to act as a point defense station.
Warship Voyager is a good example on how a ship with ample Star Fleet armaments can be enhanced with additional ones to create an even more powerful vessel. There is a continuing discussion of Star Fleet being military or not. The Dominion War showed that having military capabilities is necessary. Taking your exploratory ships to a Starbase, detaching the saucer with families and scientists then attaching a combat module with crew specialists trained to use it effectively would give some much needed punch to your fleet.
The Galaxy class was designed to be a multipurpose vessel. I think of it like the printer/scanner/fax/phone units in so many home offices- devices which do everything exchange the ability for flexibility. Yes they can do so many things, but those functions are not done as well as a dedicated unit which is designed to solely to a specific function well. Versatility is great in normal situations, but when at war you want to bring as much as you can to the table.
 
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There's no single fundamental reason why a jack-of-all-trades couldn't be turned into an ace-of-all-trades instead, though. Need a flying and diving armored aircraft carrier with greenhouses and a stock car racetrack that is superior to all landlocked racetracks? Just build one - the only real penalties, cost and mass, are negated by the Star Trek magic of future economy and inertia damping.

Quite possibly this is why the Galaxy class is so big: because it packs more firepower than any dedicated warship, has more labs than any dedicated science vessel, and is more agile than any dedicated dogfighter. I mean, it has the room so the first two things are easily postulated even if less easily verified - and the ability to turn on a dime we can see with our own eyes.

So the one downside now becomes that of taking the super-labs away from A in order to bring the super-guns to the battle at B. And the counter to that is to build enough of these ships so that both A and B can have one. But there Starfleet is already screwed: the whole premise of the show is that there are never enough starships around, not even dedicated specialist ships with only the guns or only the labs. So failing to have a supership at every location simultaneously is no biggie after all...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Always wondered if two Galaxy classes can separate and reconnect their different sections to each other...

I remember reading a quote once where someone from the production team (likely Okuda or Sternbach, but annoyingly I can't find it now) said that yes, it's technically possible, but there might be some "teething issues" and "running in" required to get an established saucer and stardrive to work reliably together.
 
Well, didn't the Enterprise D have a "sister/brother" ship of the same class and design? Im kind of think if ships like that had the same saucer separation mechanics and to rejoin.

If one ship's main part or whatever got blown up then maybe they can borrow the other ship's saucer section or the main other half.

But Im not a Star Trek ship science expert and I aint the creator of Star Trek Next Generation etc but whatever
 
Well, didn't the Enterprise D have a "sister/brother" ship of the same class and design? Im kind of think if ships like that had the same saucer separation mechanics and to rejoin.

In theory, but every ship gets modified and repaired and rebuilt and upgraded in countless idiosyncratic ways once it's in active service, so two ships that started out identical when they left drydock would accumulate more and more subtle differences over time. A ship's structure might even be subtly reshaped by the stresses it's subjected to, so putting two different ships' halves together might be like trying to plug in a connector with a slightly bent pin.

Even if the hardware of the docking latches were compatible, the software of one ship's saucer might not have quite the same versions of everything as the software of another ship's engineering hull, so there could be compatibility issues. That might affect things like the thruster timing and intensity during docking maneuvers, which would be based on the expected mass and performance of one's own ship and might not account for the subtle differences in the other ship. Or it might affect systems performance after the physical docking is completed, as the two halves' software doesn't quite get along in every respect.
 
In theory, but every ship gets modified and repaired and rebuilt and upgraded in countless idiosyncratic ways once it's in active service, so two ships that started out identical when they left drydock would accumulate more and more subtle differences over time. A ship's structure might even be subtly reshaped by the stresses it's subjected to, so putting two different ships' halves together might be like trying to plug in a connector with a slightly bent pin.

Even if the hardware of the docking latches were compatible, the software of one ship's saucer might not have quite the same versions of everything as the software of another ship's engineering hull, so there could be compatibility issues. That might affect things like the thruster timing and intensity during docking maneuvers, which would be based on the expected mass and performance of one's own ship and might not account for the subtle differences in the other ship. Or it might affect systems performance after the physical docking is completed, as the two halves' software doesn't quite get along in every respect.

This is an excellent explanation. We see this issue today, with ships leaving dock of the same class having slightly different configurations and system versions, myriad tweaks and revisions and modifications made based on feedback from existing ships and updated mission requirements etc. Ships of the same class are not mass-produced on a production line like an iPhone; they'll have customisations and variations for each one. You also run into a sort of "Ship of Theseus" issue, which might mean Starfleet has a policy of not doing this with existing ships except in extremis (if the Enterprise's saucer is attached to the Odyssey's stardrive, is the resulting ship the Enterprise or the Odyssey? Whose command codes take priority, Picard's or Keogh's?). Presumably there's nothing to stop them purposefully building a replacement section for a ship that's lost its saucer or its stardrive but is otherwise intact and functional, of course.
 
This is an excellent explanation.

Oh, good. I was afraid I was just blowing smoke.


You also run into a sort of "Ship of Theseus" issue, which might mean Starfleet has a policy of not doing this with existing ships except in extremis (if the Enterprise's saucer is attached to the Odyssey's stardrive, is the resulting ship the Enterprise or the Odyssey? Whose command codes take priority, Picard's or Keogh's?).

That sounds like a rhetorical question, but I'd say that as long as the ship is combined, command authority would default to the main bridge, and the battle bridge would be on standby only. Also, per the TNG Tech Manual, the two computer cores in the saucer are primary, while the third core in the stardrive section is just the backup. So the saucer "outranks" the stardrive section.


Presumably there's nothing to stop them purposefully building a replacement section for a ship that's lost its saucer or its stardrive but is otherwise intact and functional, of course.

Sure, and they could pair off two mismatched halves in drydock, but it would probably take a fair amount of work to smooth over their incompatibilities -- the "running in" mentioned above. It would be doable, but it wouldn't be a simple "plug and play."
 
That sounds like a rhetorical question, but I'd say that as long as the ship is combined, command authority would default to the main bridge, and the battle bridge would be on standby only. Also, per the TNG Tech Manual, the two computer cores in the saucer are primary, while the third core in the stardrive section is just the backup. So the saucer "outranks" the stardrive section.

Ah, but as far as the Odyssey is concerned in that example, its main bridge has been destroyed and the battle bridge is the primary command centre... ;)

I am, of course, only half-serious, though it's certainly worth thinking about. You're right that it'd be simple for Starfleet to establish a protocol, and as you say, the obvious protocol would most likely be "the saucer's in charge"; and even it they hadn't because they'd considered the event so incredibly unlikely as to not be worth considering, presumably the captains could hash it out among themselves.

Sure, and they could pair off two mismatched halves in drydock, but it would probably take a fair amount of work to smooth over their incompatibilities -- the "running in" mentioned above. It would be doable, but it wouldn't be a simple "plug and play."

Exactly, but this is where building a replacement section rather than grabbing an existing one would be preferable. The replacement could be customised as much as possible to match the lost section to minimise the "running in" required.
 
Ah, but as far as the Odyssey is concerned in that example, its main bridge has been destroyed and the battle bridge is the primary command centre... ;)

Only as long as there's no main bridge to supersede it. It's like how Riker is only the captain if there's no actual captain to supersede him. If, say, Jellico comes in and takes over, Riker is automatically not the captain anymore. So by the same token, as soon as there's a main bridge again, the battle bridge is automatically just a backup again. The whole reason chains of command exist is to have an unambiguous hierarchy.
 
I think that the any location of the ship can issue control orders so long as it has the authority. That authority derives from the captain.

In "Ship in a Bottle," Picard was tricked into giving Moriarty his command codes. With that authorization, Moriarty was able to take control of the ship, even though he was just a holodeck program.

It follows that the captain could designate any area of the ship to be the control center. The helm station could be in a hot tub in the arboretum, if it were the captain's pleasure. The battle bridge takes control when the captain issues the order to transfer command to the battle bridge.
 
Saucer separation was conceived for TOS. It was never more than a concept. It was suggested, but they had no model for it so it was never going to happen. It was in the story boards for TMP, but it never made it past that. And like many things, the TMP production seems to have relied on Franz Joseph's TOS General Plans for what they had in mind.
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This was very late in the Enterprise development. It was drawn by Andrew Probert and you can see his final touch on the deflector side detail. It never made it into the movie and would have required a second model because the 8 foot model wasn't designed to come apart at that spot. Probert did follow FJ in a lot of things, including this. So I completely ignore that other idea for how the Constitution Class split. Splitting at the base of the neck makes an unwieldy craft, and in case of a crash landing, would increase the chance of complete saucer breakup. So I take saucer separation at the top of the Neck, where it clearly is for TMP (the markings give it away) as gospel. If you want 3 landing legs, one tucked into the neck makes more sense and then none of them have to extend that far. Plus the TMP saucer had 4 landing legs.

The assumption is that if you separate you need either a shipyard or a best of Starfleet level engineering team.
Best of Starfleet.... like Montgomery Scott and his crack team?
 
My take on the Galaxy class ability to separate...

It is a large, heavily armed ship. Following the high number of Constitution Class ships we see lost or destroyed (4 in season 2 alone and 1 on season 3) and with the Galaxy class carrying families, I think the intention is that the star drive would fight while the saucer escaped. It is not that the ship can't stay together and fight or even separate and fight, it is to save most of the people in a do or die situation.

When you send a Galaxy class ship to war, you would not have it full of civilians so there would be no need to separate the saucer for battle. And have we forgotten the TNG episode where they separated the saucer to have an extra ship for combat? Still full of civilians I might add. So while we know that the reason we don't see saucer-less Galaxy class ships in battle is that the 6 foot model was retired in favor of the 4 foot model, there are other things to consider than just the normal crew and passenger compliment of the class. We see a glimpse of this in Yesterday's Enterprise. So just because the Enterprise D has lots of civilians does not mean every Galaxy class we see is the same, especially when they are being sent into battle. But the lack of warp drive makes the separated saucer a bit of a liability in a space battle, though it could easily serve as an armed rear guard.
 
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