Sanctuary Districts....a possibility now?

[Tyjos Azari]

Well watching "Past Tense" right now and the way the economy is now.

Has me wondering.....

Could Sanctuary Districts be a real possibility now?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Possibility?

Have you ever BEEN to Detroit?

 

[Tyjos Azari]

Nope, I've never been anywhere other than Georgia,Alabama, Mississipi, Tenessee and I've been to Kentucky once, and Florida a few times too.

 

[Amaris]

I've thought about it before, and yeah, I think there is a possibility of something similar taking place in the U.S.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

According to Memory Alpha:
While the episode was filming, an article in The Los Angeles Times described a proposal by the Mayor that the homeless people of that city could be moved to fenced-in areas so as to contain them, in an effort to "make downtown Los Angeles friendlier to business."

 

[Colonel Midnight]

So, it's a PC term for something similar to the ghettos during the Holocaust?? (Never saw the episode in question.)

If so, egads!

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Amaris]

So, it's a PC term for something similar to the ghettos during the Holocaust?? (Never saw the episode in question.)

If so, egads!

Cheers,
-CM-

Here's the Memory Alpha article on it: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Sanctuary_District

 

[T'Girl]

The episode came out before my time, but the way I understand it TPTB thought everyone of would be offended by the very idea of sanctuary districts. But right after the episode aired there was a lot of talk around the country about what a good idea Star Trek had come up with.

Seattle doesn't exactly have a district, but there are "spots" that the city police encourage the street folk to stay in.

 

[Sci]

So, it's a PC term for something similar to the ghettos during the Holocaust?? (Never saw the episode in question.)

If so, egads!

Cheers,
-CM-

It was basically a ghetto for people who were poor, unemployed, mentally ill, or physically disabled. The idea was that they had originally started as attempts on the part of the government to put everyone in one area that could be a one-stop shop to help them, but then it turned into a de facto prison system.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^ And I again make reference to Detroit. Specifically, downtown detroit, in about a one-mile ring around the main business district in which police and local officials have already created a de facto sanctuary district for the city's poor and unemployed. It has the one majorly important property of a sanctuary district: city officials, cops, social workers and even neighborhood groups usually "encourage" undesirables to relocate to that area and then pretend they have no idea what happened to them; they acknowledge that around 40% of the population is actually unemployed, but in the same breath there's a general attitude of "But I'm not one of them, so no worries" in the suburbs.

Though it isn't such a problem anymore, Chicago did something very similar to that with Cabrini Green. Strictly speaking it wasn't a walled-off isolated district, but there was a long list of circumstances--pretenses, really--that the police would invoke as an excuse to prevent anyone from LEAVING the green for days at a time.

 

[Cheapjack]

The episode came out before my time, but the way I understand it TPTB thought everyone of would be offended by the very idea of sanctuary districts. But right after the episode aired there was a lot of talk around the country about what a good idea Star Trek had come up with.

Seattle doesn't exactly have a district, but there are "spots" that the city police encourage the street folk to stay in.

Why doesn't it amaze me, that you would like the idea? there are definitely winners and losers in your world, T'Girl!

And I don't think people did think it was a good idea.If it came out before your time, how do you know? Evidence please. It's a dystopian view. And we won't have it in our country, as we have the sense to see that it would eventually cause a riot, as it did it DS9.

That future doesn't just represent one mouldy lump of orange, it represents one peice of peel, with a piece of orange stuck on it, to suck on, and people would squeal in indignation and kick up a fuss, eventually!

And apart from that, you don't have much opportunity to change your status in that system, so that myth of being able to, is shown to be a myth.And it's followed by a system that says that some people are just basically losers and designed to be on the bottom, know their place, which isn't part of the American dream that I see, in shows on the TV and films.

It doesn't have much foresight. I'd love to put YOU in one, T'Girl, for a week. It taught Sisko something.

I see your tactic, though. You are showing that you are quite capable of giving one piece of peel, in order to make one mouldy whole segment look attractive. Very clever, but unwise in the long run.

TGirl,

There's such a thing as hardfacedness, there's such a thing as materliasm, there's such a thing as practicality, but you're so hardfaced and materailsitic, you're impractical. Even a Ferengi would laugh at you! Your lobes are so big, you're Dumbo the Elephant!

If you put people on districts like that, you're cutting off an entire market, you're being unprofitable!

 

[Jptrekker]

Portland has one, its called "dignity village"

they're also working on a one stop shop for homeless folks called the resource access center

both of these have the best of intentions to help those in need--we'll see what the future holds

 

[Sci]

The episode came out before my time, but the way I understand it TPTB thought everyone of would be offended by the very idea of sanctuary districts. But right after the episode aired there was a lot of talk around the country about what a good idea Star Trek had come up with.

Seattle doesn't exactly have a district, but there are "spots" that the city police encourage the street folk to stay in.

Why doesn't it amaze me, that you would like the idea? there are definitely winners and losers in your world, T'Girl!

And I don't think people did think it was a good idea.If it came out before your time, how do you know? Evidence please. It's a dystopian view. And we won't have it in our country, as we have the sense to see that it would eventually cause a riot, as it did it DS9.

That future doesn't just represent one mouldy lump of orange, it represents one peice of peel, with a piece of orange stuck on it, to suck on, and people would squeal in indignation and kick up a fuss, eventually!

And apart from that, you don't have much opportunity to change your status in that system, so that myth of being able to, is shown to be a myth.And it's followed by a system that says that some people are just basically losers and designed to be on the bottom, know their place, which isn't part of the American dream that I see, in shows on the TV and films.

It doesn't have much foresight. I'd love to put YOU in one, T'Girl, for a week. It taught Sisko something.

I see your tactic, though. You are showing that you are quite capable of giving one piece of peel, in order to make one mouldy whole segment look attractive. Very clever, but unwise in the long run.

TGirl,

There's such a thing as hardfacedness, there's such a thing as materliasm, there's such a thing as practicality, but you're so hardfaced and materailsitic, you're impractical. Even a Ferengi would laugh at you! Your lobes are so big, you're Dumbo the Elephant!

If you put people on districts like that, you're cutting off an entire market, you're being unprofitable!

Dude, T'Girl was being sarcastic. She does not, in fact, think "sanctuary districts"/ghettos for the poor and homeless are a good thing. "What a good idea Star Trek came up with" is T'Girl's paraphrasing of other people's opinions, not her own.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Why can't something like a sanctuary district be made workable? God knows if I had a run of bad luck that ended with me on the streets I would love it if the Government provided me with a warm place to stay and food to eat until I could get back on my feet. I would prefer that to having to live under a bridge and eat garbage out of dirty dumpsters.

 

[6079SmithW]

Why can't something like a sanctuary district be made workable? God knows if I had a run of bad luck that ended with me on the streets I would love it if the Government provided me with a warm place to stay and food to eat until I could get back on my feet. I would prefer that to having to live under a bridge and eat garbage out of dirty dumpsters.

Its been years since I've seen the episode, but from what I remember and what's been said in this thread, is that it won't work because it really isn't designed to work from the start. "Sanctuary district" is just a PC term to refer to a place where society pens, isolates and segregates undesirables from the rest of civilization. It might start out as seemingly benevolent for the sake of keeping up appearances but in the end its true purpose is always realized.

 

[T'Girl]

Why can't something like a sanctuary district be made workable? God knows if I had a run of bad luck that ended with me on the streets I would love it if the Government provided me with a warm place to stay and food to eat until I could get back on my feet. I would prefer that to having to live under a bridge and eat garbage out of dirty dumpsters.

The private shelters and church shelters are much much better that the government run ones (in New York the city want to charge people to stay in shelters). I've volenteered in both mission kitchens and homeless shelters, they don't deserve the rep they have, although I'll admit there is a violence problem in the public shelters.

Why doesn't it amaze me, that you would like the idea? there are definitely winners and losers in your world, T'Girl!

And I don't think people did think it was a good idea.

It doesn't have much foresight. I'd love to put YOU in one, T'Girl, for a week. It taught Sisko something.

but you're so hardfaced and materailsitic, you're impractical.

Where in my post did i state or intimate that i though though it was a good idea?

Strawman FAIL

The episode came out in Janury 1995 when I was seven, my knowledge of the debate as to the whether sactuaries were a good idea is anecdotal, I've heard it from several sources though the years, at conventions and on various boards.

I did say (when this topic was threaded eight months ago) that I thought it might be a good idea to put Seattle's gang population in some sort of sactuary. I have also said (on a different board) the the state should have a very limited ability to remove people with severe mental problems from the street and place them in a treatment situation.

I wouldn't want you to live in a sactuary, or even sleep in a homeless shelter, why would you want me to? I did twice sleep in a shelter for battered woman run by my church so the one woman there wouldn't be alone, but not for a week.

 

[Misfit Toy]

The episode came out before my time, but the way I understand it TPTB thought everyone of would be offended by the very idea of sanctuary districts. But right after the episode aired there was a lot of talk around the country about what a good idea Star Trek had come up with.

Seattle doesn't exactly have a district, but there are "spots" that the city police encourage the street folk to stay in.

Why doesn't it amaze me, that you would like the idea?

Antagonistic and insulting - right up to the line of trolling.

TGirl,

There's such a thing as hardfacedness, there's such a thing as materliasm, there's such a thing as practicality, but you're so hardfaced and materailsitic, you're impractical. Even a Ferengi would laugh at you! Your lobes are so big, you're Dumbo the Elephant!

And this crosses the line. You have an infraction for trolling. If you can't have a discussion without bringing personalities into it, stay out of the thread.

Relevant comments regarding this infraction are to be made in PM.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Why can't something like a sanctuary district be made workable? God knows if I had a run of bad luck that ended with me on the streets I would love it if the Government provided me with a warm place to stay and food to eat until I could get back on my feet.

Because when you have a run of bad luck, "a warm place to stay and food to eat" isn't usually what you need. It would be much more useful to you--as well as to the rest of us--if someone provided you with a decent paying job. If part of your bad luck is your inability to work for some reason... well, in the first place moving you into a homeless shelter isn't going to do you much good, now is it? Another solution is required, either by finding something you CAN do or fixing the thing that prevents you from working (remember, some of the people who were in the sanctuary districts had serious mental illnesses).

Inevitably, when you start warehousing hard-luck cases in an isolated area, just by law of averages it becomes alot easier to just leave them there and ignore them than to take the time to help them turn their luck around. That's exactly why the Sanctuary Districts fell apart; in truth, it's exactly why ghettos remain ghettos and don't turn into middle-class suburbias except through gentrification.

 

[Cheapjack]

I watched 'past tense 'again and it just goes to show how prescient it was, as it said that people thought it was inevitable and a good idea in the early 21stC, though it was later thought to be a bad mistake and one of the worst periods in human history. Perhaps it might be better to go through it,than take it as a warning and avoid it, though we have seemed to avoided the WW3 that happened in the 90's in TOS?

Bashir couldn't understand what the people in the districts has done wrong. You're not freeing up people to contribute, if you wall them off like that.

Sisko said that it paved the way to all that the people in the 24thC took for granted.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Sisko said that it paved the way to all that the people in the 24thC took for granted.

And the Civil War paved the way for the freedom of black people, but I think most of us would agree it would be preferable to accomplish that WITHOUT an episode of Nation Fail.