The film looks the way it does because it's a modern film, not one made in 1979.
If people can play happy retcon once, they can do it again.
If people can play happy retcon once, they can do it again.
Same canon?
- Thread starter Captrek
- Start date
Most people do. There are TOS purists, and maybe I am a TMP-era/TNG/DS9/VOY purist. It's also possible that there are ENT purists out there. And beware of the Abramstrek purists.
You're just lovely. Quote the first line, ignore the explanation, ignore the point where I say that it's just my opinion, and then just write "Except that they didn't."
I don't know. Anything that reboots a long lasting series like Star Trek pretty much just throws everything before it into the trash.
I like JJ and his team, but for me, they do their best work when they're working with stories and characters they themselves created. What I'm seeing here are Star Wars loving guys who take other people's work and characters and just goofing off with them.
They should have just created their own unique 'thing' for Star Trek that wasn't restricted by pre-established characters or events that were fundamental. Instead of building their own castle in a sandbox full of other castles, they took the original castle, brought it to their own sand box away from the others and said it was theres. And the sad part is they think they're doing us a favor.
I like JJ and his team, but for me, they do their best work when they're working with stories and characters they themselves created. What I'm seeing here are Star Wars loving guys who take other people's work and characters and just goofing off with them.
They should have just created their own unique 'thing' for Star Trek that wasn't restricted by pre-established characters or events that were fundamental. Instead of building their own castle in a sandbox full of other castles, they took the original castle, brought it to their own sand box away from the others and said it was theres. And the sad part is they think they're doing us a favor.
^If they're "doing us a favor" or not is entirely dependant on how you feel about the movie.
Those of us who liked it believe they did - and I find the frequent negative Star Wars comparisons that crop up interesting, because I've always found Star Wars dull and unengaging, but I loved STXI.
Those of us who liked it believe they did - and I find the frequent negative Star Wars comparisons that crop up interesting, because I've always found Star Wars dull and unengaging, but I loved STXI.
I have no major issues with cosmetic changes, although the TMP Enterprise has never been bettered and I'm a bit disappointed that they felt the need to redesign the exterior of the ship to such a degree - it was a waste of money paying somebody to do that in my view. The only possible reason I can think of is to distinguish the NuTrek merchandise.
Sixties design of the interior would look out of place. Again, I was more than happy with TMP but the only thing that grates in the new movie is the brewery.
Khan will show up eventually but there is so much potential in the franchise right now and they know that they can keep the ball bouncing without him for a while yet.
Sixties design of the interior would look out of place. Again, I was more than happy with TMP but the only thing that grates in the new movie is the brewery.
Khan will show up eventually but there is so much potential in the franchise right now and they know that they can keep the ball bouncing without him for a while yet.
Oh, it's so obvious that they are setting up Keenser to be the villain in the next film.
"What does God need with a starship, man?"
"God needs a starship? Bullshit."
As I've spent the weekend asking around, I have concluded that the audience is TOTALLY willing to do this.
The only question left to answer is why a few dozen fans can't be bothered to do the same. Gotta be different, I suppose.
Rome, NY is nowhere near Rome, Italy.
JarodRussell said:
To some extent this could be claimed. However, here we get entangled in the issue of whether or not TOS is completely consistent with itself. In the case of Space Seed, Khan is curiously referred to as being from 200 years ago when according to the "1967 = 2267" official timeline it would be closer to 300. And of course we know
( the "fix" made by the Trek book franchise aside ) that there really were no Eugenics Wars in the 1990s, so moving them into the 21st century would seem necessary for a modern-day Khan project to work as intended.
Last edited:
Yes. How selfish of them to resurrect a very nearly dead franchise for both old fans and newcomers.
The owners of the sandbox asked them to build a new castle next to the original castle and use parts of that castle in the design of the new one. Oddly enough people observing both castles somehow think they are theirs.
Really? Because new Doctor Who rebooted the series yet still honored the same continuity of the old series. So that theory doesn't quite hold water.
There is no Star Wars in this movie. And while a few of the characters didn't quite gell for me, most of them worked fine. And what's the problem with changing things around to suit the perspective of the 21st century, when the source material was from the dated '60's?
Well, maybe they should have. But they didn't. And who are you to tell them what they should have done? For that matter, who am I? Who is anyone here?
Montalban's Khan and the new Khan can contradict one another and both be "canon."
This is because "canon" doesn't mean "consistent."
Of course, they're also both Khan-on.
This is because "canon" doesn't mean "consistent."
Of course, they're also both Khan-on.
number6
Vice Admiral
There's no need to try to shoehorn this movie and the ones that follow into TOS canon. None at all. Trek XI is not canon. It was established and announced in the movie that it wasn't. That gives the new creative team the license to do what they want with these characters. Now, sure there will be similarities. We are still talking about Kirk and Spock here, but since we have completely broken off from the original show and its "universe," there is a load of freedom to shape these characters and tell some new stories. I'm sure if they must do a Khan remake, it will be more in a "Dark Knight" vein than in simply retelling Space Seed.
number6 - Factually incorrect re: movie not being Canon.
FACT: Stardate 2233.04, Alternate Reality created when Narada travelled back in time from 2387, attacking the USS Kelvin, and altering the future of James T. Kirk, his father, the crew and many other things.
This is OFFICIAL, FROM THE CREATORS. Done. End of Story. Finito. The End. Set in STONE.
FACT: Stardate 2233.04, Alternate Reality created when Narada travelled back in time from 2387, attacking the USS Kelvin, and altering the future of James T. Kirk, his father, the crew and many other things.
This is OFFICIAL, FROM THE CREATORS. Done. End of Story. Finito. The End. Set in STONE.
Of course it should be noted that while they have to remain true to events already established from prior to 2233.04, events AFTER that do not require consistency with the Prime Reality established events.
- Andorians must still be the same, as they existed before that point.
- Same with Khan.
- The Doomsday Machine, Vejur etc. would be exactly the same.
- There is still a great barrier at the edge of the Galaxy.
- The other Delta Vega still exists out in the far reaches, with it's Lithium Cracking Station.
- The Borg still exist, yet to be encountered, in the Delta Quadrant.
But a LOT of other things can easily be very different.
- Andorians must still be the same, as they existed before that point.
- Same with Khan.
- The Doomsday Machine, Vejur etc. would be exactly the same.
- There is still a great barrier at the edge of the Galaxy.
- The other Delta Vega still exists out in the far reaches, with it's Lithium Cracking Station.
- The Borg still exist, yet to be encountered, in the Delta Quadrant.
But a LOT of other things can easily be very different.
number6
Vice Admiral
I'll concede that as clumsy wording on my part. It's not part of TOS canon. In that universe, Romulus is destroyed by a supernova that Spock tries to collapse with Red Matter and gets sucked into a wormhole and is presumed dead.
What happens from the appearance of the lightning storm in space and beyond is an alternate reality and is not part of the Trek canon as we have known it.
Once again "canon" doesn't not mean "continuity". You can squeeze all sorts of contradictory stories into the same canon.
number6
Vice Admiral
I realise that. But my point is that this is a reimagining of Star Trek with a younger version of the TOS crew. They have pretty much established this as a different reality than the one we grew up with. This will hopefully set up a whole new thing with some similarities. It seems simpler to just call this a new Trek canon rather than trying to shoehorn all this new stuff into the established continuity of TOS, from which this film series will likely diverge even further.
Without a more thorough understanding of how temporal mechanics work in this universe, I’m not sure we can even be certain of that. Is the conceptual breakthrough of transparent aluminum still made by Dr. Nichols at Plexicorp? Is there still a Borg attack against Zephram Cochrane’s launch site in Minnesota?
Last edited:
