Saavik falls asleep
- Thread starter Grant
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If I had a quatloo for every time lifesigns couldn't be detected due to some nearby substance blocking scans...
Beats standing in the open.
Or Star Trek in general. Just a little bit of that energy towards peace.
There is absolutely nothing anywhere on TrekBBS that leads me to believe there is any hope for world peace.
Wouldn't it be great if your heart had a check engine light?
E.T. did. Shoulda cloned him, guys,
TSFS is loaded with logistical problems and yet there are other elements that can arguably than make up for those. The tone's the thing as much as the ideas and one of the worst ideas of the bunch is Kirk somehow managing to impersonate Kruge's voice and cadence so perfectly... but (a) we're all gawking and wrapped up in the drama, and (b) TV episodes show characters asking for teleport with localized interference (weather or other issues) making it hard to discern so the teleport operator beams them over, so I just talked myself out of the worst of the bunch. Damn. Well piffle, now I have to recall another big moment that stuck out and not the size of the bridge that looks more like one big long straight wall that doesn't match up with the bridge on the hull of the ship...
...Eureka and Urkel, I've got one! And the solution is simple, but first thing's first: Saavik's melodrama in beating up David about protomatter conveniently forgets all the stuff shown in TWOK as she was there listening to some of it, not to mention being actual eyewitness to how an existing planet was not used to make Genesis Planet with, but a teensy tiny starship inside a nebula* whose boom-boom was so big that it created not just a big-ass planet in its place but a shiny new star some 93.7 million miles away out of nothing, and nobody knows any 93.7 thingies except for the radio station they may have listened to 0.3 centuries ago because "30 years" sounds horridly long and "3 decades" just isn't nerdy enough, so there's that... but I digress: Given how Genesis was tested under a certain set of expected criteria (a known planet, known to be lifeless, situated in a solar system where conditions otherwise work - complete with existing star), using a completely different set of criteria that never had any intention of being used as such makes her chiding a bit odd, but a lot more excessive with her maudlin moralizing about protomatter being unstable, blahbetyblah, as if the Genesis team was actually thinking of setting out to turn a bunch of decommissioned starships into new planets by blowing up more Genesis torpedoes inside of them all after locating them somewhere inside a nebula no matter how arbitrary. Which they weren't.
The solution, before I forget? Have the script of TSFS have David point out the intent and authorize Kirk to show her the video. the Genesis team's experiments were clearly controlled and all signs were showing that the same device, on a planetary scale, would work just as well. A starship inside a nebula simply isn't a planet being terraformed and that's why the newly created planet (and star with it?!) would become unstable and is nothing for Saavik to get so emotionlessly angry over. The moralizing about protomatter was pretty dumb to begin with, people back then would be shocked over what was used in controlled doses all over the place for all sorts of things. May as well gripe about using gasoline in vehicle since it can be unpredictable in conditions it's not supposed to be used under as well, like in the smoking section of a restaurant and everyone lights up at the same time...
...Eureka and Urkel, I've got one! And the solution is simple, but first thing's first: Saavik's melodrama in beating up David about protomatter conveniently forgets all the stuff shown in TWOK as she was there listening to some of it, not to mention being actual eyewitness to how an existing planet was not used to make Genesis Planet with, but a teensy tiny starship inside a nebula* whose boom-boom was so big that it created not just a big-ass planet in its place but a shiny new star some 93.7 million miles away out of nothing, and nobody knows any 93.7 thingies except for the radio station they may have listened to 0.3 centuries ago because "30 years" sounds horridly long and "3 decades" just isn't nerdy enough, so there's that... but I digress: Given how Genesis was tested under a certain set of expected criteria (a known planet, known to be lifeless, situated in a solar system where conditions otherwise work - complete with existing star), using a completely different set of criteria that never had any intention of being used as such makes her chiding a bit odd, but a lot more excessive with her maudlin moralizing about protomatter being unstable, blahbetyblah, as if the Genesis team was actually thinking of setting out to turn a bunch of decommissioned starships into new planets by blowing up more Genesis torpedoes inside of them all after locating them somewhere inside a nebula no matter how arbitrary. Which they weren't.
The solution, before I forget? Have the script of TSFS have David point out the intent and authorize Kirk to show her the video. the Genesis team's experiments were clearly controlled and all signs were showing that the same device, on a planetary scale, would work just as well. A starship inside a nebula simply isn't a planet being terraformed and that's why the newly created planet (and star with it?!) would become unstable and is nothing for Saavik to get so emotionlessly angry over. The moralizing about protomatter was pretty dumb to begin with, people back then would be shocked over what was used in controlled doses all over the place for all sorts of things. May as well gripe about using gasoline in vehicle since it can be unpredictable in conditions it's not supposed to be used under as well, like in the smoking section of a restaurant and everyone lights up at the same time...
* Nebulae are made from bits of gas and dust and other minute matter that are also why starships have deflector dishes in use, so their hulls don't get scratched up and/or penetrated due to the collision of the hull against the particulate matter
Forget E.T., S.P.E.W.E.Y. was much more fun!
(also, 
because it was self-saucing and tasted like garlic, especially after the 5th helping or so, but I digress...)
This part of the film is sloppily edited. Saavik being asleep, holding Spock's hand isn't among the actual problems with the film here.
It didn't even bother showing us how David failed after having him volunteer to deal with the Klingons. That's a much more serious issue.
It didn't even bother showing us how David failed after having him volunteer to deal with the Klingons. That's a much more serious issue.
TSFS goes out of its way to show everyone besides the 7 TOS cast members being incompetent, then TFF goes out of its way to show everyone except Kirk falling under Sybok's power and taking over the ship. That Nimoy and Shatner directed said films is hardly coincidence.
There isn't any actual incompetency on display here in the remaining Federation personnel. They're cut off, alone, without support, and outnumbered against better equipped, better trained professional soldiers.
Saavik gave a lot to keep Spock alive. Ultimately, David gave it all.
Nevertheless, this part of the film ought to have been put together much better.
Saavik gave a lot to keep Spock alive. Ultimately, David gave it all.
Nevertheless, this part of the film ought to have been put together much better.
Pretty much all the scenes on genesis are a rushed mess. When David opens Spock's tube the interior is filled with debris and the robe is covered with dust/dirt. Seconds later David reaches into it to remove the robe and the interior is immaculate. And if you look at the script the largest cuts are all with the Grissom and on the planet with David and Saavik. To minimize the importance of them or because their scenes were weak? A bit of both perhaps.
Speaking of Nimoy making everyone but the Ent crew incompetent or a jerk.... in his commentary he even goes as far as saying the Grissom's pink seat covers were to show they were a second-rate ship and said he wanted to indicate that the Grissom was an "effete" ship. Pink....effete? Really? So open-minded and forward thinking.
And a great tribute to astronaut Gus Grissom.
Speaking of Nimoy making everyone but the Ent crew incompetent or a jerk.... in his commentary he even goes as far as saying the Grissom's pink seat covers were to show they were a second-rate ship and said he wanted to indicate that the Grissom was an "effete" ship. Pink....effete? Really? So open-minded and forward thinking.
And a great tribute to astronaut Gus Grissom.
Yeah, right. In his commentary Nimoy straight up says he made sure that the others Starfleet members were seen a second rate and below par. He makes no "bones" about it. It's the first thing he says when Grissom appears. How anyone could deny it was blatant, obvious and intentional is bizarre.
In Esteban's opening speech they made sure to cut a line where he says "All security measures in effect." Because, you know, that sounds like what a competent officer would say.
They also cut Esteban's line "Red alert, raise shields....." when the BoP appears because that's what a competent officer would say.
In Esteban's opening speech they made sure to cut a line where he says "All security measures in effect." Because, you know, that sounds like what a competent officer would say.
They also cut Esteban's line "Red alert, raise shields....." when the BoP appears because that's what a competent officer would say.
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Esteban ≠ Saavik.
Also, it's not exactly clear what J.T. could have done to save the Grissom, given that the Klingons made even shorter work of the ship than Kruge or his hapless gunner had intended.
Also, it's not exactly clear what J.T. could have done to save the Grissom, given that the Klingons made even shorter work of the ship than Kruge or his hapless gunner had intended.
Exactly. The Grissom was a science vessel in Federation space being surprised by an attack from a cloaked warship. No need to make the captain or crew fops or second rate -- but they did anyway.
"I'm the one who's out on a limb here!" A idiotic remark from the commander of a ship to say to a landing party on an unexplored planet where there were life signs that shouldn't be there.
"I'm the one who's out on a limb here!" A idiotic remark from the commander of a ship to say to a landing party on an unexplored planet where there were life signs that shouldn't be there.
Shouldn't a science vessel have better sensors than a war ship?
It's called the Cloak Gap.
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