S5 had a better shot at happening than we thought...

[darkwing_duck1]

From a response to a question I posed on Doug Drexler's blog:

We had heard that Mr. Berman, and the new CBS bosses were not clicking, and that did not bode well for a 5th season. We figured it was 50/50. Enterprise never had really bad ratings. It actually was pulling better numbers than Galactica, which was a hit for Sci Fi. What really killed it, IMO, was Les Moonves, the head over there. He didin’t get Star Trek, didn’t care for sci-fi, and there was no love loss between him and Mr. Berman (or so I’ve heard).

50/50 is a lot better than most people were thinking.

It also confirms that people "behind the scenes" were hearing and thinking the same thing a lot of us on the outside were thinking: Moonives was the axeman that killed the show.

 

[caisson2delta]

That's really a shame. I still don't know why TPTB didn't try to pitch the show to maybe SciFi or somewhere else. One can only imagine what cool things may have happened in season 5 and beyond.

 

[joncreed]

Back in '05, Viacom's cable channel Spike wanted "Enterprise" for Season 5 since the old UPN no longer wanted any type of Sci-Fi; Spike was looking for an original series to be their flagship- at that time, I think they were showing repeats of "Voyager" and TNG. "Enterprise" would have scored BSG type ratings for Spike BUT it was rumored that Moonves used his influence in the Viacom hierarchy to quash the deal with Spike.

Also, DVR ratings were not counted back in '05 as they are now- the DVR repeats combined with first-run ratings were quite respectable for UPN.

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, I was really hoping ENT would end up moving to Spike. I'm not surprised that Moonves seems to be the common denominator in all these rumors. I'll bet he let Moonlight die for similar reasons, even though it was doing well for a Friday show and had developed a pretty strong following.

 

[Noname Given]

That's really a shame. I still don't know why TPTB didn't try to pitch the show to maybe SciFi or somewhere else. One can only imagine what cool things may have happened in season 5 and beyond.

Paramount/CBS (who owned the TV rights to the Star Trek franchise) had a number of cable outlets (including Spike TV); and a NUMBER of UPN affiliates wanted a 'first run syndication' deal (ala the TNG and DS9 series model) - but the studio was not all all interested in shopping the show. The feeling was that 18 years an 23 seasons was a good un for any franchise, and they would maintain a higher profit margin by just selling the stardard repeat syndication rights.

 

[ChristopherPike]

50/50 is a lot better than most people were thinking.

Hi darkwing. Any chance of a link, please?

Mr. Moonves no doubt attributes the current success of the film to his decision to cancel Enterprise in the first place. And since it could never have got off the ground without CBS willingness to loan the rights back to Paramount...

 

[darkwing_duck1]

50/50 is a lot better than most people were thinking.

Hi darkwing. Any chance of a link, please?

Mr. Moonves no doubt attributes the current success of the film to his decision to cancel Enterprise in the first place. And since it could never have got off the ground without CBS willingness to loan the rights back to Paramount...

There's no one link...just a general consensus that was prevelant around here at the time: that the show was going down no doubt about it early on in the season.

As far as Trek rights go, the film rights never left Paramount as they were split off from the TV rights when CBS and Paramount were separated from each other.

 

[ChristopherPike]

As far as Trek rights go, the film rights never left Paramount as they were split off from the TV rights when CBS and Paramount were separated from each other.

That's not my understanding...

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3066537&postcount=25

The rights to distributing previously made Star Trek movies, certainly. CBS Studios own all the trademarks for Star Trek and permission has to be saught to use them... even a Paramount Pictures Executive keen to get the ball rolling on a new feature-film. In the past, that was easier with the TV and film arms basically part of the same business entity.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

^That's newer information than I had...

 

[commodore64]

Les Moonves

He seems kinda like the clueless wonder. I read a NY Times Magazine article with him that scared me. For example, he thinks doing something like the naked news (where a naked woman, or stripping woman reads the news) is a good idea. He was also behind some of the retooling of the show and the one that Jolene Blalock (T'Pol) suggests should be out golfing rather than provide dumb ideas for the show. And he did provide some dumb ideas.

 

[Mach5]

Les Moonves

He seems kinda like the clueless wonder. I read a NY Times Magazine article with him that scared me. For example, he thinks doing something like the naked news (where a naked woman, or stripping woman reads the news) is a good idea. He was also behind some of the retooling of the show and the one that Jolene Blalock (T'Pol) suggests should be out golfing rather than provide dumb ideas for the show. And he did provide some dumb ideas.

And Jolene should have known better than to publicly (and quite condescendingly) trash the guy who signed her paycheck. But that's another story. I would dare to assume that ENT's demise was as much Berman's fault, as it is Moonves.' There was this interview with Garret Wang that someone posted over at VOY forum some time ago, in which Wang said that most of the CBS brass hated Berman's guts, and just waited for an excuse to kill his project and kick him out.

 

[Leroy]

I think that if ENT had been allowed to finish its seven year run the show would have been as fondly remembered as DS9. This Moonves guy sounds like a real Bonnie Hammer.

 

[Middleman]

From a response to a question I posed on Doug Drexler's blog:

We had heard that Mr. Berman, and the new CBS bosses were not clicking, and that did not bode well for a 5th season. We figured it was 50/50. Enterprise never had really bad ratings. It actually was pulling better numbers than Galactica, which was a hit for Sci Fi. What really killed it, IMO, was Les Moonves, the head over there. He didin’t get Star Trek, didn’t care for sci-fi, and there was no love loss between him and Mr. Berman (or so I’ve heard).

Would you be kind enough to provide the link?

 

[ChristopherPike]

^ I did ask that too. It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. Drexler had to pull the comment. Probably not wise to badmouth any employer (a past or a potential future one). Although personally I don't see how personal comments enter into it... as their disclaimer goes "views stated in these commentaries do no reflect the opinion of CBS Corporation". But you hear cases of employees being fired for spouting off in an online blog.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

From a response to a question I posed on Doug Drexler's blog:

We had heard that Mr. Berman, and the new CBS bosses were not clicking, and that did not bode well for a 5th season. We figured it was 50/50. Enterprise never had really bad ratings. It actually was pulling better numbers than Galactica, which was a hit for Sci Fi. What really killed it, IMO, was Les Moonves, the head over there. He didin’t get Star Trek, didn’t care for sci-fi, and there was no love loss between him and Mr. Berman (or so I’ve heard).

Would you be kind enough to provide the link?

^ I did ask that too. It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. Drexler had to pull the comment. Probably not wise to badmouth any employer (a past or a potential future one). Although personally I don't see how personal comments enter into it... as their disclaimer goes "views stated in these commentaries do no reflect the opinion of CBS Corporation". But you hear cases of employees being fired for spouting off in an online blog.

As of right before I type this, it's still up:

http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/nx-01-enterprise-class/

He talks about Berman's allergy to anything "loud" in the main post, but the portion I quoted is in the responses at the bottom:

http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/nx-01-enterprise-class/#comment-13623

 

[Navaros]

I say that blog is incorrect. "We figured it was 50/50." does not mean that that figuring opinion is one that accurately reflects reality. It's not.

The only reason ENT even last for 4 seasons is because that is the number of seasons required to sell reruns of it to other networks later on at a good price.

Otherwise, ENT would have been cancelled way before 4 seasons.

Berman himself even more or less admits as much in this interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9HcSB9WDTQ

Bottomline ENT was 100% sure to be dead after Season 4 way before Season 4 even started airing.

Also, him saying "ENT never had really bad ratings" is not true. 2-3 million is horrible ratings. Yes, nuBSG also had horrible ratings to an even worse extent, but that does not make ENT's ratings 'not really bad'. Incidentally, future rerun deals is also why nuBSG likewise limped its way to exactly 4 seasons instead of being cancelled way sooner.

 

[Bones2]

I think the cancellation of Enterprise is the most tragic thing to happen to Star Trek. If you look at season 4, that was just pure Star Trek. That was what Trek should feel like. Enterprise had reached the point where it was what we'd expect of Trek, and had it carried on for another 3 seasons of similar quality, we'd easily rate it as highly as any of the others. The idea that this didn't happen because of some twit called Moonves who didn't get it is quite painful. The ratings may have been low, but it seems to have done some job for them (whether it be because of syndication), and if cancelation was 50/50 and based on Moonves' whim ultimately, that's hard to take.

Still, we have JJ et all carrying the torch now. A lot of Trek fans are happy with that, it seems.

 

[Mach5]

I think the cancellation of Enterprise is the most tragic thing to happen to Star Trek. If you look at season 4, that was just pure Star Trek. That was what Trek should feel like. Enterprise had reached the point where it was what we'd expect of Trek, and had it carried on for another 3 seasons of similar quality, we'd easily rate it as highly as any of the others. The idea that this didn't happen because of some twit called Moonves who didn't get it is quite painful. The ratings may have been low, but it seems to have done some job for them (whether it be because of syndication), and if cancelation was 50/50 and based on Moonves' whim ultimately, that's hard to take.

Still, we have JJ et all carrying the torch now. A lot of Trek fans are happy with that, it seems.

What he said

 

[ChristopherPike]

Cheers for finding that, Darkwing.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I say that blog is incorrect. "We figured it was 50/50." does not mean that that figuring opinion is one that accurately reflects reality. It's not.

The only reason ENT even last for 4 seasons is because that is the number of seasons required to sell reruns of it to other networks later on at a good price.

Otherwise, ENT would have been cancelled way before 4 seasons.

Berman himself even more or less admits as much in this interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9HcSB9WDTQ

Bottomline ENT was 100% sure to be dead after Season 4 way before Season 4 even started airing.

Also, him saying "ENT never had really bad ratings" is not true. 2-3 million is horrible ratings. Yes, nuBSG also had horrible ratings to an even worse extent, but that does not make ENT's ratings 'not really bad'. Incidentally, future rerun deals is also why nuBSG likewise limped its way to exactly 4 seasons instead of being cancelled way sooner.

Absolutely Right(TM).