There's an echo in here...
Spoilers S10E06 "Extremis" Review, Discussion and Grade Thread
- Thread starter DimesDan
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That really was very good!
And the Executioners running away at the end was a real LOL moment.
+1.
Me too, I was going, "holy shit!" expecting a blonde head and slightly beardy face to pop out, though it may have been tricky to explain how he got River's diary. Aside from that slight disappointment, Nardole was fucking awesome.
And the Executioners running away at the end was a real LOL moment.
There is a gap between when the Doctor left Darillium and when Nardole picked him up again. Nardole could have travelled for quite some time, picked up River's diary in the Library, and made his way to the platform of zapping. Or, that could have been the Doctor's diary, he's got one too and we don't know what became of it.
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Also, we don't know for sure that it's Missy in the vault *now*. Having the thing open up and seeing Simm's Master tinkering on the piano would be very Moffatt.
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This was an alright episode. At first there wasn't much to complain about, a decent sense of mystery, some funny jokes, great interplay from our TARDIS team, even Nardole got to take part in the main storyline in a manner that worked better than last week. This had the makings to be nearly a perfect episode. And then we get to the plot twist that most of this takes place in the alien Matrix and nothing here was "real" which to me feels like a reset button. Okay, yes, everything was recorded by fake Doctor and e-mailed to real Doctor at the end, so I guess there's still a record of what happened, and this episode may end up being integral to the plot of this arc, but at the moment this twist just feels cheap.
Meanwhile, on the issue of continuity, the flashbacks establish that Nardole teamed up with the Doctor after he left his 24 year night with River. Which means that Doctor Mysterio takes place during their vigil of Missy in the Vault. But I didn't really get the impression they were on guard duty during Doctor Mysterio. Granted, the Doctor never leaves Earth, or at least the furthest he goes in Earth orbit, but Nardole clearly had free rein to take the TARDIS whenever he wanted, not to mention according to that episode the Doctor has only just left his 24 year night. The episode makes a point of paralleling the Doctor being away for 24 years as being the reason why 24 years went by for the Ghost from when he met the Doctor as a child, to that episode's modern day. If the Doctor and Nardole were supposed to be guarding the Vault all this time, than it's been nearly 74 years for the Doctor since he met child Ghost.
Meanwhile, on the issue of continuity, the flashbacks establish that Nardole teamed up with the Doctor after he left his 24 year night with River. Which means that Doctor Mysterio takes place during their vigil of Missy in the Vault. But I didn't really get the impression they were on guard duty during Doctor Mysterio. Granted, the Doctor never leaves Earth, or at least the furthest he goes in Earth orbit, but Nardole clearly had free rein to take the TARDIS whenever he wanted, not to mention according to that episode the Doctor has only just left his 24 year night. The episode makes a point of paralleling the Doctor being away for 24 years as being the reason why 24 years went by for the Ghost from when he met the Doctor as a child, to that episode's modern day. If the Doctor and Nardole were supposed to be guarding the Vault all this time, than it's been nearly 74 years for the Doctor since he met child Ghost.
The pictures released showing Missy with a piano rule that out.
Very good. Although, that might be a bit generous.
It was an enjoyable episode, but not really much to it when you really look at it. A holodeck episode. Some interesting concepts. But, all that happened really was that the Doctor learned that an invasion is going to take place. Been there done that.
The simulation is an interesting concept but it poses some problems. For example, any species who could produce such a realistic simulation with intelligent characters does not need the simulation to invade Earth. After all, they've got the ability to accurately model the mind of a Time Lord, the interior of the TARDIS, etc. Things that would not be possible to any lesser species.
Yet, despite that, they could not program it so that the characters could say different sets of numbers?! D'oh. Of course they could. And, if it were that easy to detect that they were in a simulation, it would be common knowledge. People would have long noticed that no one can say different sets of numbers! Once it's noticed, it is easily self-proven for anyone else who wants to try it.
Why were the aliens mucking about in the sim? Can't they monitor it externally? They should be able to know anything they want to know without entering the simulation because they're running the computer! Awfully convenient that they then used such insecure portals that any simulated character could use! Unguarded as well!
How could the sim Doctor send a message to his real self?! Those weren't real sonic glasses. You could come up with some mumbo jumbo about the sim sonic glasses communicated with the simulation computer to communicate with the real sonic glasses, but that doesn't seem likely.
It is it possible that a sim Simm Master will appear!!
Interesting concepts I suppose. The only meaningful parts were the flashbacks to the "execution." Glad the "mystery" of who was in the vault wasn't drawn out anymore.
It was an enjoyable episode, but not really much to it when you really look at it. A holodeck episode. Some interesting concepts. But, all that happened really was that the Doctor learned that an invasion is going to take place. Been there done that.
The simulation is an interesting concept but it poses some problems. For example, any species who could produce such a realistic simulation with intelligent characters does not need the simulation to invade Earth. After all, they've got the ability to accurately model the mind of a Time Lord, the interior of the TARDIS, etc. Things that would not be possible to any lesser species.
Yet, despite that, they could not program it so that the characters could say different sets of numbers?! D'oh. Of course they could. And, if it were that easy to detect that they were in a simulation, it would be common knowledge. People would have long noticed that no one can say different sets of numbers! Once it's noticed, it is easily self-proven for anyone else who wants to try it.
Why were the aliens mucking about in the sim? Can't they monitor it externally? They should be able to know anything they want to know without entering the simulation because they're running the computer! Awfully convenient that they then used such insecure portals that any simulated character could use! Unguarded as well!
How could the sim Doctor send a message to his real self?! Those weren't real sonic glasses. You could come up with some mumbo jumbo about the sim sonic glasses communicated with the simulation computer to communicate with the real sonic glasses, but that doesn't seem likely.
It is it possible that a sim Simm Master will appear!!
Interesting concepts I suppose. The only meaningful parts were the flashbacks to the "execution." Glad the "mystery" of who was in the vault wasn't drawn out anymore.
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Well, that was quite possibly the biggest waste of time in the entire Doctor Who franchise. I don't like this week's poll (why does it go straight from decent to rubbish?), so I'll just say "Gigantic waste of time, and complete waste of an episode". If it hadn't all been a simulation, it would have been an actually decent episode. but, in this case, the ending invalidates the good. I did like the Flashbacks to Missy, since those actually happened and were relevant.
I really liked this week's episode-- for once, I didn't see everything coming from a mile away. OK, some things, but not all.
Seemed like pointless "cleverness" to me.
How omniscient would these aliens need to be to create this simulation?
Why does Extremis make everyone kill themselves? No idea.
The simulants generate the same random numbers? While a really crappy generator is required to make this work I can allow it. It does seem to make it likely that sims would stumble onto this pretty often (playing rock-paper-scissors, for example).
Every jumped up little subroutine can email? um, right...
The Doctor cheats the executioners but agrees to watch over the body for a 1000 years? Okay, whatever ... Not sure why that has to be in some university vault but I'm sure there will be some ass-pull next week to cover that.
I thought they were over the whole scaring off villains with the Doctor's reputation but I guess not.
I think Moff wrote "Doctor defeats invasion from within simulation." and "Missy trapped in vault." on a napkin and then decided to fold them into a storyline before dessert. I'm sure people can rationalize answers but it feels really messy and haphazard. Having a sim Doctor "email" the real Doctor is a fun idea but I don't care for how they got there.
I do like the Doctor's anti-chemistry with Nardole and his infernal mothering. That has been well done throughout the season. I was surprised that Bill was written to be in the closet with her stepmother as she has been written so open about her sexuality with everyone else. Though this is the second time she seems to be with women who she is their first experiment with playing for the other team. Not sure what to make of that just something I noticed.
The episode played OK but afterwards it all kind of fell apart for me.
How omniscient would these aliens need to be to create this simulation?
Why does Extremis make everyone kill themselves? No idea.
The simulants generate the same random numbers? While a really crappy generator is required to make this work I can allow it. It does seem to make it likely that sims would stumble onto this pretty often (playing rock-paper-scissors, for example).
Every jumped up little subroutine can email? um, right...
The Doctor cheats the executioners but agrees to watch over the body for a 1000 years? Okay, whatever ... Not sure why that has to be in some university vault but I'm sure there will be some ass-pull next week to cover that.
I thought they were over the whole scaring off villains with the Doctor's reputation but I guess not.
I think Moff wrote "Doctor defeats invasion from within simulation." and "Missy trapped in vault." on a napkin and then decided to fold them into a storyline before dessert. I'm sure people can rationalize answers but it feels really messy and haphazard. Having a sim Doctor "email" the real Doctor is a fun idea but I don't care for how they got there.
I do like the Doctor's anti-chemistry with Nardole and his infernal mothering. That has been well done throughout the season. I was surprised that Bill was written to be in the closet with her stepmother as she has been written so open about her sexuality with everyone else. Though this is the second time she seems to be with women who she is their first experiment with playing for the other team. Not sure what to make of that just something I noticed.
The episode played OK but afterwards it all kind of fell apart for me.
I am not looking forward to seeing this episode after reading a review at the "Guardian". I do not care in what franchise they belong, I effin' hate mind beepery episodes and films. I get screwed enough in real life - I do not need to be screwed with in my entertainment. So, before even seeing this episode, I am giving it the lowest rating.
Also, "three brain stems" is a new one for fans to argue over
One brain in the head and one in each buttock????
But seriously, maybe the three stems are sort of combined together and don't show up as separate in human medical scans....or alien medical scans.
I agree that the numbers bit made zero sense. It seemed like the holowriters were trying to give the game away.
You're assuming a difference in capabilities between the "real" sonic glasses and the holographic sonic glasses.
You're assuming a difference in capabilities between the "real" sonic glasses and the holographic sonic glasses.
No, I'm assuming that the simulated sonic glasses are not real. So, I think I'm on pretty solid ground with that theory (unless I'm on simulated ground). The idea is that those glasses only exist within the simulation. It can only send simulated signals that propagate in the simulation. The signals are not getting out of the simulation just like the characters couldn't get out.
The bolded part is the assumption. Unless physically blocked, there's no reason why an electronic signal would be limited by the area being maintained by the holoprojectors.
Most of your other points I also noted in my review, but not this specific one. I think part of the problem is that we don't know what lead up to the execution. It seemed like the Doctor was forced into it somehow. He obviously didn't want to do it but did so with a trick up his sleeve. He seemed to feel that it was better to lock her up for a 1000 years than really dead.
Although, I still think it falls apart. Why not scare off the death people using the same exact method that worked but a little bit earlier? That way the two of them could escaped and the Doctor wouldn't be tied to a vault for a 1000 years.
On the third hand, maybe it does make sense. Perhaps the Doctor thought she deserved essentially a prison sentence and that the 1000 years would suffice? He didn't want to kill her but did want to punish her. She is evil after all. Actually, given all the harm that the Master/Missy has done, she should not get off free! I guess I'm leaning towards this theory now. Keep her locked up to prevent harm to others.
Maybe this will be clarified in conversation between the Doctor and Missy next week?
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Did you miss the part where Nardole stuck his hand outside the projection area? Anything simulated cannot get outside. Those are simulated signals. They are not real EMF (or whatever) transmissions. They exist only inside a computer as equations and their effects only exist inside the computer through computations.
It would be like a character in a video game who has a transmitter trying to send a signal to your actual receiver!
The holographic projector shows that the objects and people had physical existence within the projection area (much the way we see with a holodeck on star trek) and did not exist solely within a computer mainframe. Yes, those physical objects and people would not be able to maintain cohesion outside of the projection, but it is an assumption on your part that a holographic device cannot produce a true electromagnetic signal that could travel beyond the area of the projection.
You're missing the point. There was nothing real inside the simulation. The simulated signals cannot exist in the real world. It's really like a game character trying to send a radio signal to a real world receiver. It's just not going to happen!
