S.S. Bonaventure - Exploring the ship from TAS

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why not?

Because the Bonaventure simply looks too NEW, that's why not.

It just looks too much like the NCC-1701. Apart from some added bulk around the warp nacelles, the Bonnie could almost be mistaken FOR the NCC-1701. In order to literally be the first ship with warp drive, the Bonnie would have to look a lot more primitive.

Remember, Earth ships had warp drive for over 200 years prior to the TOS Enterprise. (re: the Phoenix and the Valiant) So if the Bonaventure really was the first warp starship, you're going to have to explain why starship design stagnated so badly in the intervening two centuries...and also the visual discrepancy between the Bonnie and the NX-01 must be taken into account as well. How do you propose to do that?

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

^I've already said that personally I interpret her as the first Starfleet ship (to have warp engines installed, anyway), so from circa the mid-2130s.

I don't think her overall aesthetics are all that much different from those of the Intrepid or Archer's boyhood model ship, and besides, animation leaves a lot of room for interpretation as to surface details.

(I don't much believe in aesthetics as a particularly firm indicator of design vintage, anyway, though. As far as I'm concerned, there can readily be different lineages that are throwbacks to older styles, or precursors to future ones, in any era. I never much cared for the idea that a secondary hull was some sort of post-NX development, either.)

-MMoM

 

[GeekFilter]

^I've already said that personally I interpret her as the first Starfleet ship (to have warp engines installed, anyway), so from circa the mid-2130s.

I don't think her overall aesthetics are all that much different from those of the Intrepid or Archer's boyhood model ship

-MMoM

We looked at the nacelles of that ship too. Yeah we figured animation left off details just like some detail was left off the Enterprise. That’s why we added plating on the hull, additional graphical elements, etc.

 

[Nightowl1701]

If a starship could have parents... A beautiful job.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

"...uh, hello? AAA planetside assist? Little help?"

 

[Timo]

I am personally cool with the exact identity and timeslot chosen here, even though I would hate to have to accept those TOS era pennant markings no matter what.

Yet the line about "first" is pretty trivially explained by simply having this be the first Bonaventure to receive warp drive... Much like Scotty would describe Archer's ship as the first Enterprise with warp drive.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Santaman]

I like it!

 

[TIN_MAN]

Just to throw another monkey wrench into the discussion, my two quatloos worth is that there’s a distinction between the space warp that Cochrane “discovered” and the more recent “time barrier” breakthrough that allowed much faster ships in the TOS era.
In TAS the term “warp drive” seems to be used as a reference to the newer innovation, so perhaps there are two types of warp drive; the space warp drive of Cochrane and the time warp drive of later invention/discovery?
If the Bonaventure was the first ship with time warp drive, then its similarity to the Enterprise would make sense, since it could very well be the prototype or test-bed for the Constitution Class.
The only thing that doesn’t fit with this idea is Spock’s statement that “some of the descendents of the crew may still be alive” but I think this falls into the same category as his statement in WNMHGB that one of his ancestors married a human female.
YMMV

 

[Tenacity]

Trekyards contributor Lonnie McAfee and I built out a 3D version of the often derided "Bonnie",

Did you two have any dimensions in mind, number of decks, crew size?

 

[BillJ]

I am personally cool with the exact identity and timeslot chosen here, even though I would hate to have to accept those TOS era pennant markings no matter what.

No worse than having to accept TNG-style rank pips, concurrent with "The Cage".

 

[Santaman]

I just like the shape of the ship, I don't really care in what era it was constructed, it is a lovely old spaceboat.

 

[GeekFilter]

Did you two have any dimensions in mind, number of decks, crew size?

We mentioned some of that in the podcast but I’m also working on blueprints. 195-212 meters (I’m thinking well call it an even 200) and I’ll have to look up the deck # when I’m at my desk.

 

[O_Kav]

I just like the shape of the ship, I don't really care in what era it was constructed, it is a lovely old spaceboat.

I agree. The Bonaventure is a cartoony compact version of the Connie and somehow she translates very well to three dimensions. This beautiful 3D render by Lonnie McAfee and @GeekFilter proves it. Good work guys.

(This is the first time I saw someone nicknaming the Bonaventure as "Bonnie", I think I will add it to my vocabulary )

 

[GeekFilter]

Did you two have any dimensions in mind, number of decks, crew size?

Here's some of the info that's going into the blueprint (and a lot of it is spread through the video):

SS Bonaventure 10281NCC - First ship with modern type II warp drive - Top speed Warp 7.002. Cruise speed Warp 5
Powered by: crystallized lithium (Housed in a dilithium crystal converter assembly)
Construction started in 2160 during the Earth-Romulan War
Built by: The United Earth Starfleet and UESPA
Completed in 2161
Officially launched May 2162
Length: 200 meters (still tweaking that 195-215 m) About the height of The Space Needle
Decks: 15
Crew: 183
Declared Missing: 2165

 

[GeekFilter]

Thanks

I agree. The Bonaventure is a cartoony compact version of the Connie and somehow she translates very well to three dimensions. This beautiful 3D render by Lonnie McAfee and @GeekFilter proves it. Good work guys.

(This is the first time I saw someone nicknaming the Bonaventure as "Bonnie", I think I will add it to my vocabulary )

Thanks O_Kav! We were pretty happy with how it turned out and it has some really nice views (and some really not so nice lol!)

 

[Masao]

GeekFilter! Very nice work, you artist.
Question: Is their an explanation for why the registry number is so strange?

 

[J.T.B.]

That was fun to listen to, and though I personally have no interest in making TOS/TAS fit with latter Trek, it can be interesting to see someone try.

About the earlier ships named Bonaventure, it was cool to get in to that. I am not myself a fan of applying "HMS" to vessels before that was a thing (I know Wikipedia does it), but it especially doesn't apply to the 1650 President, which was part of the Commonwealth navy, so no majesties. Also the RN cruiser Bonaventure, sunk in the Med in 1941, was conflated with 1957-1970 HMCS Bonaventure, which was pretty well known in Canada as the country's last aircraft carrier.

This is also consistent with ships like the SS Valiant, Columbia, Conestoga, etc. AND SS was first used in a Star Trek production as early as "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (the SS Valiant), but was actually referenced in the Star Trek pitch for the main ship, the SS Yorktown.

The way I see it, "SS" in TOS was intended to designate non-Starfleet vessels (Beagle, Dierdre, Botany Bay) but going by markings TAS Bonaventure looks like it was intended to be Starfleet. OTOH, TAS Huron was "SS" and apparently Starfleet, so what the difference is between USS and SS is open to question, I guess.

 

[Timo]

Or then "ss" is simply shorthand for "starship" and applies to every vessel by default, while "USS" actually contains identifying information.

When mentioning a vessel by name for the first time, in dialogue or, say, log entry, it is natural to add an introductory "starship" in front of the name - abbreviated or not. We seldom hear "essess" outside that context, and it is never painted on a ship hull. It does appear on assorted lists of ship identities, though... But perhaps this should not be taken as being the same usage as in dialogue?

As for the registry, we only ever see the port side. The string is punctuated by pronounced folds in the nacelle, even though it could be painted undisturbed just a few meters to the left. Perhaps this is on purpose, and the three distinct bits of the string indeed are distinct? That is, the engine is of the 02 type, the smaller-font 81or BI or whatever means something else altogether (or is just a set of vent grilles), and the actual registry only begins with the NCC... But Starfleet ran out of paint at that point.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Santaman]

Btw.. if you happen to have more beauty shots of the ship then do post them..

 

[Tenacity]

Why not?

[Because the Bonaventure simply looks too NEW, that's why not.

Not really, going by the image we have the ship was tiny compared to the TOS Enterprise, using the windows the primary had only five decks, the wide part of the saucer was one deck, the secondary (again using windows) was six decks

Using GeekFilter's 200 meters it would have been tiny even compared to the later NX-01.

It just looks too much like the NCC-1701.

But we've seen similar designs going forward from the TOS Enterprise too, the Enterprise C uses the saucer-engineering- double nacelles as well. As do later designs.

This could represent a general optimum lay-out that in-universe designer tinkered with for centuries, but with few exception the designers never got too far away from.

Apart from some added bulk around the warp nacelles, the Bonnie could almost be mistaken FOR the NCC-1701.

Actually it look like a mis-shapen earlier design, which might that been the intent during TAS. The upper bulge on the saucer is asymmetrical, the area behind the deflector dish extends forward, the engine struts are unusually bulky compared to the TOS hero ship, the engines themselves are mis-shapen.

In order to literally be the first ship with warp drive, the Bonnie would have to look a lot more primitive.

The Phoenix did look primitive. The Bonnie, despite what was said, wasn't Humanities (or anyone's) first ship with warp drive.

What Scotty meant by "She was the first ship to have warp drive installed," is unclear.

why starship design stagnated

It didn't, it advanced through the years. Compare the Bonnie to the image of the future Enterprise (Enterprise F?) seen during ENT.