This episode just kind of erks me the wrong way. I like the idea behind it but the premise is just so unrealistic. Worf had every right to fire on that ship he was in the middle of combat and I doubt if this happened in real life they would have humored the enemy by even considering sending him to them. But we got a good luck at the legal system on both sides in this episode at least.
Rules of engagement
- Thread starter ajac09
- Start date
It did seem odd to me that they were considering turning Worf over to the Klingons for accidentally shooting innocent bystanders in the heat of battle. I do like the way the episode showed us that the Klingons were more interested in the PR advantage than actually getting Worf.
You could argue that if there was any intent behind the destruction of the civilian ship it would be a war crime, but they weren't really arguing intent, they were arguing recklessness, and I don't understand why that would be grounds for extradition.
You could argue that if there was any intent behind the destruction of the civilian ship it would be a war crime, but they weren't really arguing intent, they were arguing recklessness, and I don't understand why that would be grounds for extradition.
The episode was inspired by the Iran Air Flight 655/USS Vincennes incident in 1988; America paid out compensation but never apologized for killing 290 people.
I just wish that Sisko would have simply come out and say that Worf had done the best he could to avoid civilian casualties, but even with the greatest effort and best intentions, innocents will always perish in war and that's why it must be avoided at all costs.
And also remembering the Klingons that they started this mess, no one would have died had they not invaded Cardassia...
Instead, the moral dillema is solved by a deus ex machina.
And also remembering the Klingons that they started this mess, no one would have died had they not invaded Cardassia...
Instead, the moral dillema is solved by a deus ex machina.
I wasn't too keen on the resolution either; I never really thought Odo would have contacts in Klingon space.
The whole thing should have been a none issue, a civilian Klingon ship decloaking during a fight with Klingons who were using a fire and cloak tactic Worf didnt have time to wait for a confirmed ID of a ship that anyone would assume would be one of the enemy combatants.
The Klingons obviously wanted to make it an issue, but if it had been a genuine incident and civilians had died in my mind the fault would lie at the hands of the Klingon Captain - if Worf had hesitated he would have lost the advantage of the momentary weakness between the cloak and shields being raised which could have caused loss of life on the convoy or the Defiant.
The whole thing shows that the Klingons aren't as honourable as they make out and the illusion they are trying to spin makes them out to be pretty stupid too.
The Klingons obviously wanted to make it an issue, but if it had been a genuine incident and civilians had died in my mind the fault would lie at the hands of the Klingon Captain - if Worf had hesitated he would have lost the advantage of the momentary weakness between the cloak and shields being raised which could have caused loss of life on the convoy or the Defiant.
The whole thing shows that the Klingons aren't as honourable as they make out and the illusion they are trying to spin makes them out to be pretty stupid too.
But the first rule of playing with guns is being damn sure you know what you're shooting at. Even in a war. Worf knew there were some civilian ships around, even if he expected none of them would be foolish enough to decloak right in front of him.
I enjoyed the episode. I was afraid that to the Klingons, being a lawyer would be a low-status desk job without much chance of glory. Instead the actor and role were very convincing that the courtroom was just as much an honorable battle as on the battlefield. The lawyer successfully provoking Worf worked very well.
I enjoyed the episode. I was afraid that to the Klingons, being a lawyer would be a low-status desk job without much chance of glory. Instead the actor and role were very convincing that the courtroom was just as much an honorable battle as on the battlefield. The lawyer successfully provoking Worf worked very well.
Nobody was really interested in whose fault this thing was. Klingons probably don't even believe in "war crimes" or "innocent bystanders", and from the get-go they publicly admitted that they had no case and no interest in having one; they just wanted to exercise their right to pester Worf.
It was a win-win scenario: if the UFP pointed out that the Klingons were in the wrong and should just shut up, this would be a propaganda victory for the Empire, and if the UFP extradited Worf, this would be a propaganda victory for the Empire. The only reason the Klingons didn't gloat more at the end was because their duplicity in organizing the incident was a tad too embarrassing to be made public - but make no mistake, they won this round. In their own minds at least.
As for why they even competed, the stated reason must be bogus. The trial did not shame the UFP into ceasing aid shipments: as the trial started, the shipments were already ending all on their own. Worf had been entrapped on the second-to-last sortie, after all. So a more general propaganda victory must have been the aim, and it depends on the Klingons and their intended targets (Romulans? Cardassians? Minor UFP arch-enemies, or cultures currently undecided on whether to become such?) whether the victory really was achieved. The UFP and the outcome of the trial as such would have no effect on that.
Technically, the Klingons might well use cloaks on transport vessels. After all, that would give them strategic advantage: if the enemy didn't know where the logistics were going, it couldn't know where an invasion would be coming from, or even whether an invasion were coming. But that would mean cloaking all logistics at all times, especially in peacetime and in directions where Klingons had no military intentions.
Timo Saloniemi
It was a win-win scenario: if the UFP pointed out that the Klingons were in the wrong and should just shut up, this would be a propaganda victory for the Empire, and if the UFP extradited Worf, this would be a propaganda victory for the Empire. The only reason the Klingons didn't gloat more at the end was because their duplicity in organizing the incident was a tad too embarrassing to be made public - but make no mistake, they won this round. In their own minds at least.
As for why they even competed, the stated reason must be bogus. The trial did not shame the UFP into ceasing aid shipments: as the trial started, the shipments were already ending all on their own. Worf had been entrapped on the second-to-last sortie, after all. So a more general propaganda victory must have been the aim, and it depends on the Klingons and their intended targets (Romulans? Cardassians? Minor UFP arch-enemies, or cultures currently undecided on whether to become such?) whether the victory really was achieved. The UFP and the outcome of the trial as such would have no effect on that.
Technically, the Klingons might well use cloaks on transport vessels. After all, that would give them strategic advantage: if the enemy didn't know where the logistics were going, it couldn't know where an invasion would be coming from, or even whether an invasion were coming. But that would mean cloaking all logistics at all times, especially in peacetime and in directions where Klingons had no military intentions.
Timo Saloniemi
Yes, and Sisko was right. The part of the episode that strains credibility is not that Worf was tried for extradition but that Worf fired on the ship at all without identifying it first.
In real life soldiers don't even get extradited for raping civilians, I can't imagine somebody actually being extradited for a foreign country for accidentally shooting them during a combat situation.
Then I guess the Federation is supposed to be more honorable than real life politicians, so they might actually follow the law even when it would constitute an admission of guilt which could be taken as a show of weakness.
Rules of Engagement in realpolitik:
"The request for extradition is ridiculous. We are investigating into the incident and can find no conclusive evidence that the ship was even destroyed by the Defiant. We are not going to drag the name of an honorable soldier through the mud in an obvious attempt to sully the name of our great Federation." (Worf is quietly made to resign)
Then I guess the Federation is supposed to be more honorable than real life politicians, so they might actually follow the law even when it would constitute an admission of guilt which could be taken as a show of weakness.
Rules of Engagement in realpolitik:
"The request for extradition is ridiculous. We are investigating into the incident and can find no conclusive evidence that the ship was even destroyed by the Defiant. We are not going to drag the name of an honorable soldier through the mud in an obvious attempt to sully the name of our great Federation." (Worf is quietly made to resign)
+1 - one area where DS9 and TNG were consistent though is portraying Worf as a bit volatile. His slow career progression is a significant indicator of that.
As has been said, the episode was based on the biggest clusterf**k in recent US history when a US warship shot down an airliner full of civilians for no apparent reason. Heads deserved to roll there (whoever gave the fire order should have been court martialled) but they didn't. Starfleet at least are a bit more honest.
The intriguing thing here is that the scheming Klingons themselves must have been doing pretty much the same thing that Worf did: flying on instinct and betting everything on a single card, without a chance to stop and verify.
For one, they'd need to know Worf was in command of a specific mission - but they'd probably have good intel on that, and the crew rosters might even be public information under some silly law or another. Yet for another, they'd need to know exactly when Worf would figure out the pattern of cloaking and decloaking for the two warships, and then suddenly introduce the autopiloted transport ship. How could they do that? They would only have one try. I guess it helps if you don't stop to think before acting... Fortune favors the bold etc.
Timo Saloniemi
For one, they'd need to know Worf was in command of a specific mission - but they'd probably have good intel on that, and the crew rosters might even be public information under some silly law or another. Yet for another, they'd need to know exactly when Worf would figure out the pattern of cloaking and decloaking for the two warships, and then suddenly introduce the autopiloted transport ship. How could they do that? They would only have one try. I guess it helps if you don't stop to think before acting... Fortune favors the bold etc.
Timo Saloniemi
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