RTD Retrospective #3: Early Season Two-Parter

[Stevil2001]

Results from the last thread: What's your favorite series premiere?
49% - "The Fires of Pompeii"
32% - "The End of the World"
12% - "Tooth and Claw"
5% - "The Shakespeare Code"

"The Fires of Pompeii" dominated this one, though "The End of the World" staged a comeback towards the end. I was surprised at what a low showing "Tooth and Claw" made.

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After three (or four, in Series Two) episodes establishing the basis of the show-- present, future, past-- Russell Davies always did a nice, big two-part story, almost always set in the present day. (Series Three is the only exception, although Series Two is borderline.) Which was your favorite of these?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

This is a tough choice, but not because how good they are, rather because how pedestrian they are. In the end, I have to go with "The Sontaran Strategem"/"The Poison Sky" if only because it brings back our favorite potatoes.

 

[captcalhoun]

Sontar-HA!

 

[Starkers]

Sontarans all the way... Aliens of London/WW3 and the Dalek two parter are both poor and the Cybermen...I dunno, it's not a terrible story (certainly better than the s1 and 3 equivilent 2 parters) but I really am not keen on the alt universe Cybermen.

 

[Kelso]

The early two-parters where silly fun. "Aliens of London/World War Three" is easily the best of them, though. The character stuff was fabulous and the Slitheen where hilarious- like something that fell out of a Douglas Adams story.

"It's not twelve hours, it's twelve months. You've been gone a whole year. Sorry."

"The Sontaran Stratagem/The Poison Sky" gets second place.

 

[selina]

This is a tough choice, but not because how good they are, rather because how pedestrian they are.

Agreed. But I had to go with "Rise of the Cybermen / The Age of Steel", because back then Cybermen weren't overdone yet. I thought they made an interesting enemy and I like parallel universes in general.

"Aliens in London" / World War Three" comes second. On the one hand the episodes were a bit strange, but on the other hand they were funny, too.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

This is a tough choice, but not because how good they are, rather because how pedestrian they are.

Agreed. But I had to go with "Rise of the Cybermen / The Age of Steel", because back then Cybermen weren't overdone yet. I thought they made an interesting enemy and I like parallel universes in general.

I hated the new Cybermen with their stomping around and yelling "Delete! Delete! Delete!" nonstop. I much preferred the menacing, yet clunky Cybermen of old, particularly in The Tenth Planet, Tomb of the Cybermen, and The Invasion.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I love "Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel", and I have to say that I enjoy the new Cybermen (who are actually trying to turn people into Cybermen) much more than the old ones (who were not much more than Daleks with legs).

The Sontaran two-parter will win, though. I've been told that anything with Donna Noble in it is automatically "teh r0xx0rz".

 

[VDCNI]

I'm not keen on any of them but The Sontaran Strategem/The Poison Sky just edges out the Cybermen episodes for me.

 

[Starkers]

^^See I think of the new Cybermen as more like Daleks on legs than the old ones. The very fact that new Cybes arejust brains in a robot body backs this up. I liked the old notion of Cybermen that various parts of your original body remained, just with armour on top and circurity running through your veins.

Of course in Cyberwoman this is the way theur were portrayed...it was just handled really, really badly...

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

^^See I think of the new Cybermen as more like Daleks on legs than the old ones. The very fact that new Cybes are just brains in a robot body backs this up. I liked the old notion of Cybermen that various parts of your original body remained, just with armour on top and circuity running through your veins.

What I meant by "Daleks on legs" was that the old Cybermen, like Daleks, were just evil cyborgs from outer space with delusions of grandeur. They wanted to take over the universe and kill the Doctor, and that's pretty much that. Replace them with Daleks and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

The new Cybermen, on the other hand, make a much better use of the themes that were supposed to be there from the beginning. They are an army of factory-produced drones who want to erase individuality and replace it with conformity and efficiency. The loss of individuality is something truly horrific that we can all relate to, and in my opinion it's much more interesting than generic evilness.

 

[Shazam!]

Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks by a country mile. I can't believe how much stick these episodes get. It gives us great locations, old school Daleks (old school in the sense that they act like knobheads and never do things the easy way), and B-movie elements.

Aliens of London/World War Three was diabolical in just about every way and must've had Chris Eccleston looking around going "What the hell am I doing in this show?"

Rise of the Cybermen/The Age of Steel peromised the return of the Cybermen and instead gave us a 'Spare-Parts' rip-off that introduced us to alternate universe Robot Men with Brains.

The Sontaran Strategem/The Poison Sky - "Doctor, it's Martha and I'm bringing you back to Erf!"

 

[Sci]

I rather enjoyed "Aliens of London"/"World War Three." I know, the Slitheen are silly-lookin', but apart from that, I think RTD has a very well-done story about how society would react to a sudden first contact scenario like that one. Plus, the Doctor running around in Downing Street -- how is that not fun?

 

[HappyDayRiot]

^^ I actually agree. I still like the Dalek two-parter, because Dalek Sec was great. Or, at least, was better than the Slitheen and more engaging than the Zeppelinverse Cybermen. The Sontarans were better, but Martha was appalling in them and I want to punch Rattigan in the face every time he's on screen.

 

[Lonemagpie]

As a two-parter, Sontarans, though Age Of Steel on its own is easily the best episode out of the eight.

 

[Saul]

Cybermen orgin and flying zeppelins were cool.

 

[Turbo]

Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks by a country mile. I can't believe how much stick these episodes get. It gives us great locations, old school Daleks (old school in the sense that they act like knobheads and never do things the easy way), and B-movie elements.

I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who liked this two-parter! It wasn't as good as the others, but it was still a fun romp.

It comes down to the Cyberman or Sontaran episodes for me. Now that we're several years out, I'm liking the Cyberman episodes less and less. Mickey was fantastic, and Mrs. Moore and Jake were cool (and I'm still annoyed we haven't met his prime counterpart). Rose, on the other hand, annoyed me. A lot. I understand that she wants to meet her father, but as the Doctor pointed out, she's not really "their" daughter.

The Cybermen, on the other hand, were not so very good. As has already been pointed out, they were more like robots than converted humans. The prime universe Cybermen seemed to have distinct personalities, at least early on. Also, as Shazam pointed out, the episode was a hollow imitation of "Spare Parts", the best audio Big Finish has produced so far.

The Sontaran two-parter, on the other hand, did every thing right that the Cybermen episodes got wrong. We got Martha Jones coming back and being awesome (and NOT getting into a Rose-style catfight with Donna, which was even better). We got UNIT actually becoming competent again and playing a large role in the plot. We got Donna playing a small but crucial role in both episodes; she's not the focus of the plot but just another player, which is refreshing considering the end of the season. (And I say this loving Donna to bits.)

Luke Ratigan, on the other hand, seemed rather useless, and also fairly clueless for a supposed genius. The Sontaran "betrayal" was telegraphed fairly early on.

And we didn't just get the Sontarans back, we got them back in a way far better than how they appeared in the Classic Series. It really feels like the first time since their very first appearance in "The Time Warrior" that they've been fully realized on-screen and not just the generic Monster of the Week. You can really believe that this is an entire culture dedicated to making war. And it was also nice to see so many Sontarans at once. THIS is how you bring back an enemy.

 

[Candlelight]

Despite Dalek Sec crawling out of his casing becoming the jump the shark moment for the show for me (I haven't watched series four), this one beats the first two.

 

[tomalak301]

The Cyberman two parter. They were new and interesting, even though the Sontaran two parter was good to.

 

[Timby]

Despite Dalek Sec crawling out of his casing becoming the jump the shark moment for the show for me (I haven't watched series four), this one beats the first two.

A human Dalek with six cocks hanging off his head was the only time I've ever turned to my wife and said, "Why the hell are we watching this?"

The Sontaran two-parter is probably the best of this lot.