"Rose" - Ninth's first adventure?

[NightJim]

Been around for a while. Since he regenerated just after The Moment, and his brain shifted to thinking he wiped out Gallifrey and the Time Lords I believe he couldn't bring himself to look in a mirror. I've heard PTSD sufferers have a similar problem. The 'can't bear to look themselves in the face'. On a fictional version, there's an epic episode of Spooks (MI-5 to the Americans) that deals with one of them doing his first assassination, and a more seasoned member of the team talks him through it and gets him to look in a mirror, with a 'if you can do that you'll be ok'.

And while it might have started like that, I think it carried on that way because he kept himself busy, and just didn't think about it. That bit in Rose is that Rose left him in a room with a mirror for a few moments of downtime and he finally can looks at himself. He's also clearly reached a point

Nothing too drastic, but a few decades at least. It's probably close between him, Three and Five as to who had the shortest innings.

The Ninth Doctor looking

 

[Candlelight]

I've always treated Eccleston as the shell-shocked war veteran who holds himself responsible for the conclusion of the Time War, and cleaning up the aftermath, such as chasing the Nestene. Regarding the destruction of the Dalek fleet he said "I watched it happen, I made it happen" (in Dalek). It's stated in The Day of the Doctor that the timeline corrected itself after the war ended differently, allowing Ten to return to his own time without the memory of events, and for the War Doctor to regenerate, so I'd like to think that activating the Moment triggered the Doctor's regeneration, and watched from the Tardis (?) as the Dalek fleet and Gallifrey burned. Clearly the Moment shattered the Time Lock which allowed the Doctor to escape, OR he was "pushed through by the shockwave". The War Doctor's attitude indicated (to me anyway) it was a suicide mission activating the Moment.

I think he spent the time after his regeneration pursuing any survivors of the war that may harm innocent beings, and that lead him to Earth after the Nestene. The mirror scene was purely for the fans of the old series who wanted to bridge the gap of 16 years. I don't think it was ever meant to be taken as he only just regenerated a few hours earlier.

 

[DWF]

It seems super clear that Nine is meant to be 'fresh' so-to-speak. There are untold years between his departure and return at the end of 'Rose' but at the beginning of the episode Nine is, at most, hours old.

That's hard to accept.

The Doctor has always had a period of instability after a Regeneration. A few days old, OK maybe, but, not just hours. Is it just fan assumption that he'd been tracking the Nestene for a period of time, or actually in the Episode? That means, not only would he need time to stabilize after his Regeneration, but, also for the tracking.

Strangely enough something similar had happened before with teh fourth Doctor, somehow he left UNIT headquarters and put his new personality into Xoanon. But I don't believe that happened in Rose.

 

[Sindatur]

It seems super clear that Nine is meant to be 'fresh' so-to-speak. There are untold years between his departure and return at the end of 'Rose' but at the beginning of the episode Nine is, at most, hours old.

That's hard to accept.

The Doctor has always had a period of instability after a Regeneration. A few days old, OK maybe, but, not just hours. Is it just fan assumption that he'd been tracking the Nestene for a period of time, or actually in the Episode? That means, not only would he need time to stabilize after his Regeneration, but, also for the tracking.

Strangely enough something similar had happened before with teh fourth Doctor, somehow he left UNIT headquarters and put his new personality into Xoanon. But I don't believe that happened in Rose.

Wait...WHUT?

I never made that connection. I know he says he caused an Identity Crisis in Xoanon, but, did he say he was in Identity (Or Regeneration) Crisis (Meaning, as you say, it occurred during the middle of Robot) when he made the screw up? Fascinating...This bears looking into. Thanks!!!

 

[DWF]

That's hard to accept.

The Doctor has always had a period of instability after a Regeneration. A few days old, OK maybe, but, not just hours. Is it just fan assumption that he'd been tracking the Nestene for a period of time, or actually in the Episode? That means, not only would he need time to stabilize after his Regeneration, but, also for the tracking.

Strangely enough something similar had happened before with teh fourth Doctor, somehow he left UNIT headquarters and put his new personality into Xoanon. But I don't believe that happened in Rose.

Wait...WHUT?

I never made that connection. I know he says he caused an Identity Crisis in Xoanon, but, did he say he was in Identity (Or Regeneration) Crisis (Meaning, as you say, it occurred during the middle of Robot) when he made the screw up? Fascinating...This bears looking into. Thanks!!!

After the Doctor trussed up Harry, Sarah and the Brig came rushing and after talking to Harry you can hear the sound of the TARDIS taking off, then Sarah got though to him and the sound stopped. And in The Face Of Evil the Doctor does claim that he trip to Leela's planet happened early in his regeration.

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

And in The Face Of Evil the Doctor does claim that he trip to Leela's planet happened early in his regeration.

I don't think that he does. It's just that he can't remember it initially. The novelization suggests that it was sometime during Robot, but it wasn't made clear on screen.

 

[DWF]

And in The Face Of Evil the Doctor does claim that he trip to Leela's planet happened early in his regeration.

I don't think that he does. It's just that he can't remember it initially. The novelization suggests that it was sometime during Robot, but it wasn't made clear on screen.

Before the Doctor and Leela enter the face's mouth the Doctor says that he's features aren't fully formed. And yes the novel does suggest that's when he left but it does make sense.

 

[Saul]

I take the mirror thing as a bit of fun for the audience, nothing more and nothing less.

I take it to mean he had regenerated fairly recently instead of winking to the audience.

 

[The Wormhole]

Thing is, RTD has stated it was his intention the Ninth Doctor fought the Time War, so whatever else the mirror scene is supposed to mean, it doesn't mean a recent regeneration.

 

[kirk55555]

I take the mirror thing as a bit of fun for the audience, nothing more and nothing less.

I don't think that's fair. You can't explain away scenes and dialog as "fun for the audience". If it was on screen, it happened. Regardless of the out of universe reason, it still happened in universe and has to be explained in that context.

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

Before the Doctor and Leela enter the face's mouth the Doctor says that he's features aren't fully formed.

He makes some comments about how the carving hasn't captured his likeness perfectly, but that's not the same thing at all.

And yes the novel does suggest that's when he left but it does make sense.

Well, quite. I certainly believe that the Xoanon incident happened very early in the fourth Doctor's life (though it doesn't have to follow that it was during that particular moment in Robot) - but I think it's a good example of something that's worked its way into the fan consciousness despite not being definitely stated in the programme itself.

 

[The Wormhole]

I take the mirror thing as a bit of fun for the audience, nothing more and nothing less.

I don't think that's fair. You can't explain away scenes and dialog as "fun for the audience". If it was on screen, it happened. Regardless of the out of universe reason, it still happened in universe and has to be explained in that context.

So then, in the context of the show, who was the Doctor wishing a merry Christmas in Feast of Steven?

 

[DWF]

I take the mirror thing as a bit of fun for the audience, nothing more and nothing less.

I don't think that's fair. You can't explain away scenes and dialog as "fun for the audience". If it was on screen, it happened. Regardless of the out of universe reason, it still happened in universe and has to be explained in that context.

So then, in the context of the show, who was the Doctor wishing a merry Christmas in Feast of Steven?

I was thinking the exact same thing, Doctor Who has broken the fourth wall more than once.

 

[Venardhi]

Honestly though, have none of you ever looked in a mirror and made a comment to yourself along these lines?

 

[JoeZhang]

I take the mirror thing as a bit of fun for the audience, nothing more and nothing less.

I don't think that's fair. You can't explain away scenes and dialog as "fun for the audience". If it was on screen, it happened. Regardless of the out of universe reason, it still happened in universe and has to be explained in that context.

but that is applying a nerdy american view of TV applied to a show that traditionally doesn't doesn't care about such things - you have to take a show on its own terms and this is a show that like a stick of blackpool rock has British lack of care running through it, so yes you can explain things away like that as simply "fun for the audience".

 

[Photoman15]

I take the mirror thing as a bit of fun for the audience, nothing more and nothing less.

I don't think that's fair. You can't explain away scenes and dialog as "fun for the audience". If it was on screen, it happened. Regardless of the out of universe reason, it still happened in universe and has to be explained in that context.

So then, in the context of the show, who was the Doctor wishing a merry Christmas in Feast of Steven?

All that "happened" in "ROSE" with the mirror was that it's the first time the Doctor really took a look at himself. Nothing more, nothing less. Whether it was because he just recently regenerated or because he couldn't bring himself to look at the monster that committed multi-genocide is NOT depicted here.

As for War Doctor regenerating right after the Moment was used (and the goodbye scenes were done), he comments that it makes sense. He became the War Doctor (in "NIGHT OF THE DOCTOR") to fight the war. It was over. This body/personality was no longer needed and it was time to regenerate out of it into a new Doctor.

I believe there was some time between Doctor Grumpy regenerating and "ROSE". He went thru PRSD (Post-Regeneration Stress Disorder/Disorientation), went to those places in the photos (Titanic, Dallas '63, etc...) either as stand-alone adventures or as part of looking for the Nestene.

BAD WOLF then drew him to Rose, who subconsciously he sort of met (in the Barn).

RTD's idea that Nine pushed the button is moot because that was in Russel's mind, never written and filmed and broadcast. It's how he approached the Ninth Doctor, but not conveyed. The same with the woman who Wilf keeps seeing (and is beside Lord Rassilon in "THE END OF TIME"). Russel wrote it as she was the Doctors' mother. But he left it for interpretation.

 

[Starkers]

For me 'Rose' is the adventure after his post regeneration adventure (if that makes sense) andI'm still convinced that he went off and had several adventures before he popped back and told Rose "It also travels in time."

In hindsight it would have been cool if he'd suddenly been wearing a different sweater

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm still convinced that he went off and had several adventures before he popped back and told Rose "It also travels in time."

Which, as it turn out, is what the Ninth Doctor e-book for the 50th anniversary ended up going with. The particular story details the Ninth Doctor's adventure right before he decided to go back and tempt Rose with time travel.

My problem with this theory is that is a pretty specific point for the Doctor to make it back to, especially when you consider a few episodes later he messed up his attempt to arrive twelve hours later and ended up twelve months. Although, I suppose it can be explained as the TARDIS taking him to where he needs to be, perhaps this time being guided or helped or whatever by Bad Wolf or the Moment.

 

[Sindatur]

I'm still convinced that he went off and had several adventures before he popped back and told Rose "It also travels in time."

Which, as it turn out, is what the Ninth Doctor e-book for the 50th anniversary ended up going with. The particular story details the Ninth Doctor's adventure right before he decided to go back and tempt Rose with time travel.

My problem with this theory is that is a pretty specific point for the Doctor to make it back to, especially when you consider a few episodes later he messed up his attempt to arrive twelve hours later and ended up twelve months. Although, I suppose it can be explained as the TARDIS taking him to where he needs to be, perhaps this time being guided or helped or whatever by Bad Wolf or the Moment.

He could've also used that handy "reverse trip" function. That seems pretty reliable, if he just sets it to go back to where he he just came from, rather than actually plotting in coordinates to go back to where he started

 

[Redfern]

DWF, I concocted the same idea years ago concerning the Doctor's programming of Xoanon which resulted in the cultural split. And, as far as I can remember, independent of interaction with other fans. I thought, "Why can't the Doctor remember his first visit, especially since he had companions travel with him from the start? What would make him forget?" Then I thought about about Davison's post regenerative trauma, being "out of it" for a couple of episodes. Hey! That might be the ticket! Baker's Doctor was still "rattled" from his recent regeneration. It would even explain why Xoanon developed its "mania". But when could have the Doctor left to perform those actions, still partially delirious from regeneration? Why, the scene when Sarah and the Brigadier find Harry Sullivan "truseed up like a pair of old boots". In fact, we even heard the "groaning" of the TARDIS' engines. "But it never dematerialized," some will counter. From our perspective, maybe not, but who's to say the TARDIS didn't start to dematerialize and then, mere pico-seconds "out of phase", the Doctor is returning from that adventure?

However, I will admit there is a fundimental flaw with that notion. The cliff-side portrait of the Doctor seems to sport his iconic scarf. Yet, when the Doctor opens the police box door, responding to sarah's pleas, he's still wearing the nightshirt when he trussed up Harry.

A less intriguing notion is that the Doctor's first encounter with Xoanon was simply an "unseen" adventure someone after the events of "Revenge of the Cybermen" when the TARDIS finally caught up with our trio. (As presented, there was really no point during Baker's first series when he could have traveled to the Sevateen planet. The dialog omplies the gang "vworp" immediately at the end of "Robot" to the Nerva station in "Ark in Space". At its conclusion they teleport to earth in the "Sontaran Experiment". From that point, their teleport beam is intercepted and redirected by the CIA and aimed at Skaro for the "Genesis of the Daleks". And using the time ring given the Doctor, the troupe make their way back to Nerva to experience the "Revenge of the Cybermen". Even at the end of that story, the dialog suggests the Doctor, sarah and Harry head straight back to "present day" Earth responding to a space/time telegraph message the Brigadier transmitted. After point, the field is "wide open".

I just like the idea of the Doctor having an entire adventure in the "blink of an eye", so quick it doesn't even appear he left.

Sincerely,

Bill