"Rose" - Ninth's first adventure?

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Up until the Name of the Doctor last year, the Ninth Doctor's lifespan and his adventures have been the subject of many a conversation, namely in regards to his role in the Time War. It has always been assumed that between him and the Eighth Doctor, they eradicated the Daleks and the Time Lords. From what RTD let on, both from the musings of "eyewitness" reports in the conspiracy site from Rose and from various sly references during his run, it seems like he intended for him to have been the one who used the "Moment".

However, another matter that has been discussed is, was the Doctor in Rose a newly regenerated Doctor or not. And honestly, was he? Cause there seem to be evidence to support both sides.

On the one hand, its possible the Doctor has been on the run for a while, occupying himself so as not to think of his recent loss and thus avoid looking at himself after what he did. Of course, that might be an extreme, seeing as how he didn't seem to be discomforted by himself or his actions in the episode. Also, if he didn't call himself The Doctor for as long as a thousand years, why would he do so so suddenly. It seems like we lost something in the translation there.

On the other hand though, it can be presumed, very realistically too, that given how the story happen from Rose's perspective, that the details concerning the Doctor and his regeneration from Warrior to Doctor are consequently lost, no doubt by intent so as to re-introduce the concept to new viewers. As such, how he changed to his new clothes, and the decision to call himself the Doctor again would still have happened, albeit, unfortunately off-screen (thanks Moffat!).

But what do you think? Do you consider Rose the Doctor's first adventure after his regeneration? An Eleventh Hour-esque adventure where the Doctor is immediately thrown into a new adventure? Or do you think it happened quite some time after?

Of the options above, I would say the former makes more sense. In the days before the 50th anniversary, I'd easily say he used the Moment to wipe out Daleks and Time Lords alike after a very recent regeneration, then spent a fair amount of time away from everything before the Rose adventure. But in light of Day of the Doctor, post-regeneration story it looks like to me.

What do you think?

 

[kirk55555]

I think post regen. He was surprised by what he looks like, and he didn't mention it for Rose's benefit. Sure, it may have been a comment for the audience, but that doesn't mean you ignore it. He confirmed that he had never seen that face. Unless he had a phobia of mirrored surfaces right after regenerating, it makes no sense for him to not be used to how he looks. Either way you go with this some things don't totally make sense, but personally I go with Rose being a post-regeneration story.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Until I read "Flood Barriers," which gave the account of how DWM was going to regenerate the eighth Doctor, I was agnostic. After "Flood Barriers," I was firmly in the "No, the ninth Doctor had lots of adventures and was the Doctor who fought the Time War and burned Gallifrey" camp.

After "The Day of the Doctor" and the ages and times given in that (400 years between the War Doctor and the eleventh Doctor, 300-plus between the tenth and eleventh, less than 5 between the tenth and "Rose"), it seems clear that there are several decades between the War Doctor's regeneration and "Rose." I have to revise my previous conclusion -- that the ninth Doctor fought the Time War -- but the general impression from "Flood Barriers" remains; the ninth Doctor had a decent lifespan measured in decades.

 

[Kemaiku]

Which never involved a mirror?

He was still adjusting and doing the usual commentary on his new features. Hard to imagine that happening decades down the line.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Which never involved a mirror?

He was still adjusting and doing the usual commentary on his new features. Hard to imagine that happening decades down the line.

So everytime I look in the mirror and play with my nose or my ears, that means I've regenerated? By this point I must be the 2753rd Allyn, at least.

Seriously, though, the mirror scene doesn't prove a thing.

 

[MacLeod]

"Rose" is a bit ambigious there is evidence to support both cases, such as his Titanic referrences and being in Dallas in November 1963, Krakatoa etc.. of course some of these might be unseen adventures with Rose, so whilst "Rose" might not be an immediate post-regen story I don't think it's that long after his regeneration.

 

[Mage]

"Rose" is a bit ambigious there is evidence to support both cases, such as his Titanic referrences and being in Dallas in November 1963, Krakatoa etc.. of course some of these might be unseen adventures with Rose, so whilst "Rose" might not be an immediate post-regen story I don't think it's that long after his regeneration.

Thing is, Rose is in none of those pictures. And I sort of think it's odd that the Doctor would tell her to not get in the picture. One could argue that he doesn't want it for history's sake, but having said that, a man in clothing like his in pictures from Krakatoa aren't actually inconspicious aswell.

So, yeah. Ambigious.

 

[JoeZhang]

I take the mirror thing as a bit of fun for the audience, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Csalem]

I think it is the conclusion of his first adventure. I think he was chasing Nestene for a while and caught up with them on Earth. But at most I am talking about weeks and not months. I think he had the other adventures at the end of the episode before he came back for Rose.
That is how I personally account for the events.

 

[Venardhi]

Somewhere in between the 2nd and 3rd option. Maybe it has taken a few adventures or even a few years years for him to really warm up to this new face. "Could have been worse, look at the ears." isn't exactly delivered with surprise. He isn't surprised, but he doesn't strike me as someone who looks in the mirror a lot, so it might have been weeks or months or years since he took a good look. I sincerely don't think it is an immediate post-regeneration story though.

 

[Tom]

The Tardis interior and exterior (the white paint was gone the Tardis doors and looked cleaner than McGanns/Hurts version) was changed sometime before Rose also, but then again, that could have been done in minutes so that does not tell you much. The pics from the Titanic etc... could have been adventures he had before coming back for Rose at the end. The only thing we do know is that he was tracking the Nestene but we don't know for how long.

Would be cool if CE would agree to do a web episode that starts at his regenerative birth and has a mini adventure, that shows him change the Tardis at some point, and at the end has him going after the Nestene.

In the mean time I am enjoying CE in HBO's 'The Leftovers'. Episode 3 was all about his character, was pretty good.

 

[Sindatur]

I could go either way on how long it was since his Regeneration before he met Rose. As chaotic as the Doctor's life is, being propelled from one adventure to the next, I have no problem believing a Hundred years went by without him really noticing and not even seeing his reflection. Or it could have simply been a few days or weeks that he was chasing after The Nestene, after any Regeneration Crisis

One thing, that has been a solid impression all along for me, though, is that the Regeneration occurred during or shortly after using the Moment, so, I'm very glad Moffat didn't go with his idea to have Eccelston be the one who used The Moment, because that just wouldn't have felt right to my "Head Canon" (Inserting The War Doctor between McGann and Eccelston works just as well for me as if it was McGann who ended the Time War with The Moment)

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I dunno, I always had the impression from that first series that the Ninth himself did it. He's far more passionate about his hatred with the Daleks than either of his successors (especially Smith), and the military-like getup sort of confirms it (among other things).

I don't hate the Warrior retcon, but I am not one to totally preclude the possibility of the Ninth having done it. Especially considering Moffat was ambivalent about using him in the 50th special.

 

[MacLeod]

I dunno, I always had the impression from that first series that the Ninth himself did it. He's far more passionate about his hatred with the Daleks than either of his successors (especially Smith), and the military-like getup sort of confirms it (among other things).

I don't hate the Warrior retcon, but I am not one to totally preclude the possibility of the Ninth having done it. Especially considering Moffat was ambivalent about using him in the 50th special.

Well the Ninth Doctor being more passionate is not exactly unexpected, as it was more recent for him. By the time of the Tenth and Eleventh Doctor's they have had a bit more time to come to terms.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I dunno, I always had the impression from that first series that the Ninth himself did it. He's far more passionate about his hatred with the Daleks than either of his successors (especially Smith), and the military-like getup sort of confirms it (among other things).

I don't hate the Warrior retcon, but I am not one to totally preclude the possibility of the Ninth having done it. Especially considering Moffat was ambivalent about using him in the 50th special.

Well the Ninth Doctor being more passionate is not exactly unexpected, as it was more recent for him. By the time of the Tenth and Eleventh Doctor's they have had a bit more time to come to terms.

Point is, the indication on-screen is that he did it. Obviously it was always gonna be him, since he is the Doctor at all times, but really, its the Ninth thats most likely to have pressed the Moment, pre-John Hurt.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I dunno, I always had the impression from that first series that the Ninth himself did it. He's far more passionate about his hatred with the Daleks than either of his successors (especially Smith), and the military-like getup sort of confirms it (among other things).

I don't hate the Warrior retcon, but I am not one to totally preclude the possibility of the Ninth having done it. Especially considering Moffat was ambivalent about using him in the 50th special.

Well the Ninth Doctor being more passionate is not exactly unexpected, as it was more recent for him. By the time of the Tenth and Eleventh Doctor's they have had a bit more time to come to terms.

Point is, the indication on-screen is that he did it. Obviously it was always gonna be him, since he is the Doctor at all times, but really, its the Ninth thats most likely to have pressed the Moment, pre-John Hurt.

It depends on whether you take the view that the Doctor(s) ALWAYS saved Gallifrey by moving it to the pocket universe, then forgot what had happened on that day, or whether you take the view that 10 & 11's involvement changed time (I personally take the first view but I accept that either is perfectly valid).

If you hold to the second view, then perhaps in the original timeline Nine activated the Moment, just after his regeneration. You could perhaps rationalise that when 10 & 11 appeared, it somehow gave the War Doctor a lease of life - he didn't feel stretched quite as thin and his regeneration occurred later in this timeline than in the original one. And that's why it wasn't Nine who activated the Moment in this time, simply because the regeneration was pushed back. The War Doctor regenerated almost as soon as he parted ways with his successors - if they hadn't been around to help him, might he have been even more despondent and regenerated into Nine sooner?

 

[The Wormhole]

No, I don't believe Rose is the Ninth Doctor's post-regeneration story. And yes, I am of the opinion he likely lived for a few decades between regenerating and the events of Rose. That's my personal canon, and there's nothing in the show to really contradict it.

 

[The Doctor]

It seems super clear that Nine is meant to be 'fresh' so-to-speak. There are untold years between his departure and return at the end of 'Rose' but at the beginning of the episode Nine is, at most, hours old.

 

[Sindatur]

It seems super clear that Nine is meant to be 'fresh' so-to-speak. There are untold years between his departure and return at the end of 'Rose' but at the beginning of the episode Nine is, at most, hours old.

That's hard to accept.

The Doctor has always had a period of instability after a Regeneration. A few days old, OK maybe, but, not just hours. Is it just fan assumption that he'd been tracking the Nestene for a period of time, or actually in the Episode? That means, not only would he need time to stabilize after his Regeneration, but, also for the tracking.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I don't think anything about his timeline in Rose can be said to be 'super-clear.' There are inferences, suggestions and arguments and can conclusions may be drawn from them. But it's far too open to interpretation to be called 'super-clear.'