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Spoilers Rosa grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Rosa?


  • Total voters
    99
As far as I know, it isn't used here. It actually took me a second to project backward from the word and realize "Ohh, she's Pakistani, not Indian!"

The word is often used in a derogatory way about Indians, Sri Lankan people and anyone from the Indian subcontinent. I’ve even heard it used to describe Egyptians. Racists are frequently dumb, uneducated SOBs.
 
Ooof, rough. I appreciate what they were trying to do, but it seemed like they had an idea, "Let's do Rosa Parks!", and...."Okay, how?" And the "how" was a convoluted mess.

The villain was completely rubbish too. Like someone read Harry Turtledove's Guns of the South. And yet, he hardly did anything. Yeah, I know his goal was to make small changes but it was almost like he didn't even have to be there. Just make it so the residual energy was creating the changes, not him. Some random ex-con from the (far) future wants to go back in time to stop Rosa Parks? Huh? Why? Oh....because he's a white supremacist. Wait, what? Why?
One of the main points of the episode was showing the ugliness of racism, the villain was supposed to reflect that. Having things randomly change because “time energy” feels like a cop out and is actually a convoluted excuse since it has never happened before. Based on past episodes, it’s always aliens or some rando. And what other reason did he need? Racism isn’t rational, well thought out or coherent, it’s idiots who hate whole groups for reasons that only occur to their broken brains. It’s really not about him anyway, it’s about Rosa and that era which are done brilliantly.
 
Well, the motivations behind the villain were a bit thin. Basically he's just a white supremacist from the future with time travel technology.

You just described a Dalek.


The word is often used in a derogatory way about Indians, Sri Lankan people and anyone from the Indian subcontinent. I’ve even heard it used to describe Egyptians. Racists are frequently dumb, uneducated SOBs.

I know. This was driven home in the days after the Sept. 11 attacks. Some racists killed a Sikh gas station operator because they were too damn stupid to know the difference between a Sikh and a Wahhabist. Or rather, they didn't care. The tragedy was just their excuse to murder a brown person.
 
Okay silly question but I'm seeing a lot of people here saying to get rid of the villain entirely. Without him for the Doctor and co to face would it not end up with her being responsible for what Rosa did on that day and thus the "real" hero behind it all? To me that sounds worse. Yes you have to face the evil bus company and the general racism of the era but Rosa did that. That was the point of her protest.
You definitely need a villain. It would be lame for history to go of course for no reason at all. (Voyager's anyone?! No thanks!) Then you're fixing things that no one broke!

I guess it could've been to fix a mistake they caused, but that's kind of lame too. Lots of work just to get back to where it should've been. We kind of got that anyway. And, agreeing with someone who said that aspect wore on a bit!

But, this type of story boxes them in. Yeah, if he was a true badass, he'd have just gone back, killed Rosa, and that's that. End of story. But, you can't have that happen, so he's neutered.

I don't know how you do this type of story without neutering the villain. In Timeless, they pretty much just didn't care. The bad guys would go back in time and cause havoc. The good guys would attempt to minimize said havoc, and keep history generally on the right track, but there would be changes. I don't think DW will go that route! So, they're boxed in.
 
The word is often used in a derogatory way about Indians, Sri Lankan people and anyone from the Indian subcontinent. I’ve even heard it used to describe Egyptians. Racists are frequently dumb, uneducated SOBs.

Sadly, Indians in India use it to slur Pakistanis

One of the main points of the episode was showing the ugliness of racism, the villain was supposed to reflect that. Having things randomly change because “time energy” feels like a cop out and is actually a convoluted excuse since it has never happened before. Based on past episodes, it’s always aliens or some rando. And what other reason did he need? Racism isn’t rational, well thought out or coherent, it’s idiots who hate whole groups for reasons that only occur to their broken brains. It’s really not about him anyway, it’s about Rosa and that era which are done brilliantly.

Yeah, a rascist trying to undo the civil rights movement didn’t need much more explanation.
 
I’m sure the alt-right or whatever bigots like to call themselves would love access to a time machine to stop some things they consider to be mistakes.

Shame they wouldn't just use it to migrate back to the 50s, since they think they were so great.

Of course, there's probably an ironic story in the making of how some did, and the 50s folk lynched 'em for being too different.
 
I lamented this way after every episode during his run once it became clear how Moffat was going to handle his incarnation. Capaldi had such strong and distinctive presence as The Twelfth Doctor that it's such a shame he only had a handful of truly great episodes and far too many stinkers. He deserved better.
I'd argue less on the "too many stinkers", and more on the "stories that treaded old ground." As even decent a lot of the episodes were, Capaldi's run was basically a re-run of Smith's.
 
Maybe Krasko is the last white man?

Which is bizarre, since the last human being is a white woman, and the tochlophane we saw, after the carriage was opened up, were also white.

So it could not be as clearly about white and black after all.

He said that this is where it "started" to go wrong, so maybe 59 centuries later it's not about white humans first, it's about humans first, as aliens and humans keep interbreeding and the cultures keep glomming, until no one celebrates Christmas anymore.

The political acceptance of Black people in the 20th century, lead to the acceptance aliens in the 40th century, and the end of humanity in the 79th century, because Cassandra was not the last human, despite her insistence.
 
I think it’s better if he’s simply just a bigot. There’s nothing special or unique about him, just the latest in a long line of people who want to hold back progress and resent the whole world for not listening to their evil. It doesn’t matter if they’re from the 1860s, 1950s, 2018 or the 79th century, it’s all the same.
 
A very current, very appropriate episode written for OUR times, despite being an almost purely historical one. Its pretty faultless in terms of its depiction of the era, the feeling of oppression for the non-whites and the rebellious decision that Rosa Parks did make.

I can't possibly comment further on the positives, because everyone did cover them. However, I do have some issues with it, which preclude it from being an absolute great episode.

The bus interaction between the Doctor and her companions in front of the driver himself was rather awkward, and if I was the driver, I'd be very suspicious indeed. The reason why Yaz was allowed to sit on the Whites section was never followed up on. The time-travelling baddie, as miniscule as he was intended to be in effect, I still rather wish he was further characterized, maybe even played better. The last one was the most important take-away for me, because I thought this was a good chance to, perhaps, make a recurring villain for this Doctor, kinda like the Monk, though not a Time Lord, for sure. I didn't like him.

Beyond those, I largely enjoyed this episode. Its obviously the best of the series, thus far, and excluding the previous series two-part finale, the best overall episode in a long time. I'm glad Doctor Who can still keep going strong, and fresh after all these years.
 
Which would be a major problem regarding the Christmas Specials...
Christmas in the future could just be reduced to certain aspects like gift giving and such. It’s already lost most of its religious context already and has drastically changed over the centuries. It may even go back to drunken ominsexual orgies one day, featuring the return of Capt. Jack who is running the lubricant water park.
 
Christmas in the future could just be reduced to certain aspects like gift giving and such. It’s already lost most of its religious context already and has drastically changed over the centuries. It may even go back to drunken ominsexual orgies one day, featuring the return of Capt. Jack who is running the lubricant water park.
That's one Christmas celebration I wouldn't say Humbug to.
 
What did they call it in the future?

Kazran Sardick: On every world, wherever people are, in the deepest part of the winter, at the exact midpoint, everybody stops, and turns, and hugs, as if to say "Well done. Well done, everyone! We're halfway out of the dark." Back on Earth, we called this Christmas, or the Winter Solstice. On this world, the first settlers called it the Crystal Feast. You know what I call it? I call it expecting something for nothing!

Although... Don't forget Space Station Nerva... The thousands of humans that were not eaten by the Wirnn, skipped 15 centuries, after the sun turned into a baby frying bastard, who struck out into space to spread their old fashioned beliefs to the 40thish century.

Christmas probably came back with a vengeance?
 
Of course, at that point I imagine enough alcohol is involved that the only thing anyone's thinking is "shit, this feels good."
 
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