Ronald D Moore

[TheMasterOfOrion]

There are things about Moore's writing I love
the realism of his Battlestar spaceship and that Aircraft carrier setting
some great episodes he wrote for Star Trek
He's wrote some really good material which can be ranked with the best of scifi episodes.


but I can not emphasize enough how happy I am Moore was not allowed have his way with Voyager, his work on "Roswell" was pathetic and his over-hyped Battlestar became so utterly rudderless these past seasons. Shooting your yap off about members of cast and crew is not how to be professional and Moore did his share of flames while talking himself up so much.

Some people like RobScorpio think Moore is a good producer, I completely disagree and would maybe take issue with RobScorpio's understanding of the word film producer. A producer is not like one of the ground crew or a person who writers or shoots and directs film - they have a totally different role. The Voyager name was badly managed but the Battlestar name also needs good supervision. Management in a way the directors bring the best out of the actors, budgets. Managing and supervising the Fx and Prop, crews, so they don't screw up the sets and digital shots. Where Moore starts to fail for me is in his managerial role, he's not a great producer and fails to direct the cast and crew to get the most out of a series with great potential. In my opinion some very average producers like Drew Barrymore and David E Kelley actually produce work which blows Moore away because at least their work is consistent
their supervision of actors, set budgets, day-to-day workings etc
and their management is professional enough to make Moore look amateurish

Take a BSG style reimagining of Voyager season3-5
Chapter 1
They would open the season would some huge space battle, it would wow scifi fans but would be too big. Therefore blowing the budget, leaving little money for the rest of the season and force a large number of episodes to be packed with Rikki Lake style plots
Chapter 2
Paris and Torres would be beating the shit out of each other, scratching each others eyes out. They both would be cheating on each other one would be banging Kes the other humping HarryKim, they both would kiss and make up after some stupid Boxing episode

Chapter 3
There would be sleeper Borgs in the ship Voyager, although the Borg hate starfleet humanity so much for some bizarre reason they are also trying to emulate the humans and their emotions, superstitions etc so there would be 12 humanoid Borg copies who look exactly like humans and they would have a plan- yawn !
Chapter 4 the development of the Captain
Kathryn Janeway
Would have a big ugly scar running down her face, she would be the only person with a pair of testicles. All the rest of the Voyager crew especially the males would mope around like castrated dweebs. Instead of black coffee she would have a peg leg, a parrot and start drinking rum on a regular basis. When Janeway meets Seska/Maquis/Kazon instead of talking to them she would order them to be attacked, beaten, molested. She would make sure many members of Starfleet have a ride on the new prisioners. Janeway would be other extreme to the hippie castrated dweebs piloting the ships, Janeway would be the worst amalgamation of Bush, Thatcher, Hitler/JoesphStalin
Chapter 5 traitors
Seven would be a girl who fled from the Borg, we would be constantly hearing how "the Borg have a plan". At the end of one of the seasons Seven would flip out and shoot Kathryn Janeway in the face. By some miracle the doctor would save the Captain but not before Chakotay goes alcoholic and DUI/totals Voyager into a few asteroids. Chakotay would get seven pregnant, for about half a season we would hear how this baby will save the universe until the writers suddenly decide to abandon such a stupid storyline. At the end of the show Janeway would come up with some clever way to wipe out the Borg but then Chakotay would become a traitor to humanity and side with the Borg, I'm not sure where the suicide bombers, presidential election and abortion episodes would fit in.

 

[RobertScorpio]

There are things about Moore's writing I love
the realism of his Battlestar spaceship and that Aircraft carrier setting
some great episodes he wrote for Star Trek
He's wrote some really good material which can be ranked with the best of scifi episodes.


but I can not emphasize enough how happy I am Moore was not allowed have his way with Voyager, his work on "Roswell" was pathetic and his over-hyped Battlestar became so utterly rudderless these past seasons. Shooting your yap off about members of cast and crew is not how to be professional and Moore did his share of flames while talking himself up so much.

Some people like RobScorpio think Moore is a good producer, I completely disagree and would maybe take issue with RobScorpio's understanding of the word film producer. A producer is not like one of the ground crew or a person who writers or shoots and directs film - they have a totally different role. The Voyager name was badly managed but the Battlestar name also needs good supervision. Management in a way the directors bring the best out of the actors, budgets. Managing and supervising the Fx and Prop, crews, so they don't screw up the sets and digital shots. Where Moore starts to fail for me is in his managerial role, he's not a great producer and fails to direct the cast and crew to get the most out of a series with great potential. In my opinion some very average producers like Drew Barrymore and David E Kelley actually produce work which blows Moore away because at least their work is consistent
their supervision of actors, set budgets, day-to-day workings etc
and their management is professional enough to make Moore look amateurish

Take a BSG style reimagining of Voyager season3-5
Chapter 1
They would open the season would some huge space battle, it would wow scifi fans but would be too big. Therefore blowing the budget, leaving little money for the rest of the season and force a large number of episodes to be packed with Rikki Lake style plots
Chapter 2
Paris and Torres would be beating the shit out of each other, scratching each others eyes out. They both would be cheating on each other one would be banging Kes the other humping HarryKim, they both would kiss and make up after some stupid Boxing episode

Chapter 3
There would be sleeper Borgs in the ship Voyager, although the Borg hate starfleet humanity so much for some bizarre reason they are also trying to emulate the humans and their emotions, superstitions etc so there would be 12 humanoid Borg copies who look exactly like humans and they would have a plan- yawn !
Chapter 4 the development of the Captain
Kathryn Janeway
Would have a big ugly scar running down her face, she would be the only person with a pair of testicles. All the rest of the Voyager crew especially the males would mope around like castrated dweebs. Instead of black coffee she would have a peg leg, a parrot and start drinking rum on a regular basis. When Janeway meets Seska/Maquis/Kazon instead of talking to them she would order them to be attacked, beaten, molested. She would make sure many members of Starfleet have a ride on the new prisioners. Janeway would be other extreme to the hippie castrated dweebs piloting the ships, Janeway would be the worst amalgamation of Bush, Thatcher, Hitler/JoesphStalin
Chapter 5 traitors
Seven would be a girl who fled from the Borg, we would be constantly hearing how "the Borg have a plan". At the end of one of the seasons Seven would flip out and shoot Kathryn Janeway in the face. By some miracle the doctor would save the Captain but not before Chakotay goes alcoholic and DUI/totals Voyager into a few asteroids. Chakotay would get seven pregnant, for about half a season we would hear how this baby will save the universe until the writers suddenly decide to abandon such a stupid storyline. At the end of the show Janeway would come up with some clever way to wipe out the Borg but then Chakotay would become a traitor to humanity and side with the Borg, I'm not sure where the suicide bombers, presidential election and abortion episodes would fit in.

But the problem with your post is your percieved problems he has. Those were all your opinions. The show has legions of fans who would probably beg to differ with you.

Why he IS a good producer? The fact he can even put out a show like this, with the talented cast he has, on such a shoe-string budget on a niche cable-tv network. One can only wonder what he would have done with voyager. We will never know. But what I do know? IMO. He is not only a better producer than Braga, he is also a far better writer.

Oh, and the producer's main job is not to be fucking one of the key members of the cast. It sets up so much turmoil between the other cast members, and from what we have heard? It did.

So, no, I disagree with you. Ronald D Moore's nuBSG is not the greatest scifi show ever. But compared to Voyager? That is where personal taste comes in. But it isn't only my belief that Voyager had such potential to be more than it was. And for those of us who think came up short, we can't only blame Berman. Branon Braga, IMO, bares more blame.

RDM's nuBSG is considered a hit program by today's standards. How long did Threshold last? Not long.

I believe that VOYAGER would have been better off if RDM had stayed and Braga had been swept aside. We will never know...such is life.

Rob
scorpio

 

[TheMasterOfOrion]

But the problem with your post is your percieved problems he has. Those were all your opinions. The show has legions of fans who would probably beg to differ with you.

If you'll read my post you will see I'm not defending Braga I not really a big fan of his Trek work and haven't really seen "Threshold" that much. Comparing Moore and Braga as producers is like comparing the third worst NFL player with the fifth worst NFL player. In the broader context the comparison is meaningless because there are far better NFL players to be talked about.
Not once did I say RDM was or should be a cast member. You think I have some "perceived problems" with RDM, well then let's stick to the facts. Moore blew his budget for BSG in episodes like Exodus, he blew so much cash trying to do some fancy visuals that he had almost no money left for the rest of the season, leaving the show to be packed with filler episodes. If you blow millions of dollars $ early on in your season - that's called BAD FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT and POOR PRODUCTION MANAGEMENT

RDM's nuBSG is considered a hit program by today's standards. How long did Threshold last? Not long.

Contrary to popular online opinion Moore was little involved in BSG until AFTER the BSG mini aired. Rymer and Eick were the people keeping the show on the road, old BSG fans allege they stole the blue prints from other revamping efforts like Bryan Singer's but whatever the case their mini/pilot was shot while Moore was sitting in Los Angeles or working on Carnivale. At most he only got updated via phone call and wasn't involved in shooting, wasn't involved in sets or production because he was thousands of miles away.
Some claim reimagined Battlestar to be a hit but here's another FACT :
on its better days nBGS gets about 1.3 in ratings and gets beaten by old re-runs of Enterprise and Wrestling, not exactly a big hit. With these kind of dire ratings it's not ridiculous to assume that any incarnation of Voyager would have beaten the pants off nBSG on Skiffy. Unlike you I don't pick sides, chosing on producer over another by default and I believe that VOYAGER would have been better off if BOTH Moore and Braga had been swept aside.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Ratings is just convincing the morons that there are sheep who have nothing better to do worth taking advantage of. Cheese for the trap in making used car salesmen pay for CGI and plastic forehead molding.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I love RDM. I loved his influence on DS9...and I love nuBSG. I even love Roswell, and while I don't know the complete extent of his work on that show, I quite enjoyed the end product.

IMO, nuBSG is the Voyager that could have been.

Voyager was never a bad show (as many of it's detractors claim), but put it this way - nuBSG is a kick-ass GREAT show. And it's legacy could easily have been Voyager's. If B&B would have let RDM have the same freedoms on VOY that the writers on DS9 enjoyed for so long.

The best thing that ever happened to DS9 were VOY and Insurrection. Because while other Trek projects like those were keeping B&B occupied, Ira Behr, RDM and the rest were taking Trek in a brand new direction with DS9.

It's a pity that VOY was never given that same opportunity - especially via RDM staying on-board, unfettered by B&B's vanilla-flavored, happy-shiny restraints. Perhaps VOY wouldn't have been quite as dark as BSG...but it would have been alot darker than it was - maybe even darker that DS9.

And if that had happened, I think ENT would have followed and we'd have seen the franchise as a whole go in a darker and more interesting direction overall.

Which IMO would have been a good thing.

 

[LeadHead]

I really had high hopes for RDM when he came to Voyager and was very disapointed when he left so soon into the season.

He had written a lot of good solid stories for DS9. Voyager had a knack for endings that really weren't that satisifying, often feeling relly thrown together and not very strong on conclusion,something that DS9 rarely suffered from. Typcially even if the stories themselves had problems, they had good solid beginings/middles/endings.

 

[kipron]

He would have capitalized on the vast amount of potential that existed in Voyager but which was squandered, such as:
1. Real, ongoing struggle of Maquis members trying to fit in
2. Real consequences of bringing on the Equinox survivors
3. Real consequences of being isolated in space for many years
4. Real consequences of Janeway's not-infrequent flying off the handle (like in Equinox)
5. Real supply issues.
6. Developing all existing characters rather than bringing on attractive female Borg and later Borg children.
7. Seeing people take on new roles over the course of time as they, you know, grow and develop.
8. The ability to deal with issues over long periods of time rather than wrapping them up in a single episode (or two-parter).

I'm sure there's much more, but that's a good start.

The problem is, Moore joined Voyager roughly ~ 2/3 of the way through the series.

In contrast, the points you raise are the kinds of questions that should've been explored either from the beginning, or not at all. Given how Caretaker ended (with the Maquis in SF uniforms ), it is quite clear that TPTB went with the latter.

 

[Guy Gardener]

This whole momentum, changing horse in midstream argument falls short when you consider the incongruently different styles and directions taken between seasons 1 and 2 vs season 3 vs season 4 of Enterprise.

If some one kicked hard enough they could have done anything with Voyager.

 

[Rhaenys]

Although I'm not a big fan of Moore, I think he would have helped to improve Voyager.
He and Braga were (most of the times) great team, a balance to each other.
If he stayed, he could have brought a little bit more drama, more character development, but Braga and Berman and others would stop him not to exaggerate.
And he could maybe influence on Voyager to have less technobabble, time travel and similar stuff.

 

[Michael]

(that whole death scene with Callie was so DALLASish)

Thanks for using spoiler code.

 

[DanCPA]

I have to wonder if things would have ended so badly for Voyager if Moore had remained on the show. At least we have the new BSG to enjoy now.

Voyager would have arrived at Earth, only to find it had already been assimilated by the Borg!

 

[rocketscientist]

(that whole death scene with Callie was so DALLASish)

Thanks for using spoiler code.

Yeah, I appreciated that too, seeing as I'm still watching season 3 of BSG.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They're advertising the commencement of a first viewing of season three in New Zealand right now.

I can't imagine having waited to view it on their terms.

 

[RandyS]

The issue of nothing ever really changing on Voyager seemed to be Moore's biggest problem.

It should have been more like Battlestar Galactica. They should have been struggling for fuel and food. The ship should get damaged and not look pristine again the next week.

It's worth pointing out here that the Galactica, and the rest of the fleet are hardly in shambles all the time either.

 

[kimc]

It's worth pointing out here that the Galactica, and the rest of the fleet are hardly in shambles all the time either.

I'm going to try to say this without spoilers: There was recently a really big battle and Galactica was still showing the damage the last time I watched. Hey, it may not be perfect but at least it's an effort at some continuity which I have to appreciate.

 

[anais]

I'm not complaining about continuity on Voyager until someone explains where the Galactica people get all their cigarettes from, not to mention what they waste to make alcohol

And Boxey!

 

[kimc]

I'm not complaining about continuity on Voyager until someone explains where the Galactica people get all their cigarettes from, not to mention what they waste to make alcohol

Those are actually good questions.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The chief was bootlegging to buy engine parts. The cigerettes are made out of dung and Boxey is the last of the final 5 Cylons.

 

[teya]

I'm not complaining about continuity on Voyager until someone explains where the Galactica people get all their cigarettes from, not to mention what they waste to make alcohol

Not to mention, they must have tailors and weavers in the fleet, seeing as uniforms aren't in tatters by now...

 

[DanCPA]

I'm not complaining about continuity on Voyager until someone explains where the Galactica people get all their cigarettes from, not to mention what they waste to make alcohol

Well, we've seen the Chief make booze. I imagine that somewhere on the fleet there are people growing some products, including tobacco.
As for the uniforms not being ripped, there are tailors