Romulans getting the short end of the stick

[Imperator-Zor]

This is something that I feel is the case. It is based mostly off the TV series and the movies. Even so, I must say this: I feel that the Romulans have been given the Short End of the Stick a lot.

To specify this in more detail, think about how many episodes where you have the Romulan Star Empire on it's own win? Not a victory off screen or some historical event, not them coming out of a situation without serious losses, nor a situation where they work with the Federation and profit from it, but where a scheme of theirs actually paid off for them. In TOS and TNG the crew would thwart them and their schemes a few times. In DS9 they were involved in some big screw ups. They get screwed over by Shinzon and devestated by the Romulan Supernova. In short, the Script Gods seem to have it out for Romulans. The most successful group so far was the Zhat Vash's move against Mars, a move to get the Federation into following their specific agenda at the Cost of the Empire. The Klingons had their victories, as did the Borg and the Dominion and the Cardassians. But the Romulans don't get much in the line of victories in of themselves.

Moreover there was never a Romulan Spock. By which I mean the Vulcans had Spock (as well as Tuvok and T'pol) as a character which gives the perspective of that civilization. Similarly the Klingons had Worf and Martok, the Ferengi had Quark, Nog and Rom, the Cardassians had Garek and Dukat, even the Andorians had Shran in Enterprise and the Andorians outside of Enterprise have been marginal. In TNG and DS9 we got a number of Romulan Officers which even if they came back were largely in a narrow adversarial role. We get a bit of this in Picard, but not to the same degree and these are what I am going to call marginal Romulans. We have the Elnor and the Zhat Vash guys, but these groups are by nature removed from the mainstream of Romulan Society. Nero is a pretty lackluster villain as he is depicted in the film and he's rather removed from Romulan Society due to the whole time travel thing.

In general I feel that the Romulans just have never really had their moment of glory in the franchise. Maybe we would have gotten it if Enterprise had been renewed. If I had to say what could have been a solution to this problem, I would have said that the Romulans could use a Thrawn. A brilliant Admiral who's ability is not that they are the best Starship Commander, but they can make the best use of even second rate older ships by being an expert at Fleet Command and an understanding of their opponents. Either as an ally or as an enemy you could do a lot with such a character.

Would you agree with this assessment?

Zor

 

[NCC-73515]

Klingon victories were only shown after they became allies. A Short Trek from a Romulan perspective could be interesting.

 

[Timo]

Giving Romulus a victory would be rather analogous to giving North Korea a victory. Those can only ever be of the propaganda sort, as anything more concrete would simply mean The End.

Indeed, the greatest victory of Romulus is the original one, just as with North Korea: the originating conflict did not result in the annihilation of the Empire, but rather at its solidification and preservation as a curiosity behind a barbed wire fence.

One wonders what the Star Empire was like before it butted heads with Earth or CoP or UFP or whatever. It clearly wasn't in a rat race with one of the regular players, as its technologies were unimpressive, either backward or then at most plateaued at the level Earth held when first entering the contest. At least two thousand years went without Romulus rising to truly competitive interstellar level, it seems. But there might have been glorious victories during those millennia nevertheless.

As of the TNG era, the Romulans still apparently are serious underdogs, nearly going under and only treading the water thanks to audacious, reputation-building stunts such as suicide attacks. They probably count "Unification" as a major victory, even if the UFP considers it a UFP triumph. Perhaps we could get our "Romulan Spock", but he or she would be rallying for these survival stunts, scheming insane attacks for the very same reason Spock solves fascinating scientific mysteries: to protect his or her dearest friends in the dangerous conduct of their lives and careers. One or two PIC characters already present themselves as options here...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

I thought this was more related to the real world perspective, that Romulans are basically almost always being neglected. When originally created in TOS the intent was to make them a recurring villain, but the Klingons quickly usurped them instead on account of having easier makeup and as a result, Romulans only had two actual appearances on TOS. TNG, likewise only dealt with the Romulans a handful of times, despite the fact they actually took the time and money to build a new model ship for them in the first season. Even on DS9 when the Romulans do become allies of the Federation during the Dominion War, they're basically just there and there wasn't really a recurring Romulan character who go any kind of screen presence or development, certainly not comparable to, say, Martok, or even Admiral Ross.

Even in the movies, Romulans were only featured as secondary support characters in two of the six TOS movies, plus a meaningless cameo in Generations. Nemesis comes along being touted as the first Romulan centred movie, and then they end up as second fiddle to the newly created Remans. Finally Trek XI does feature Romulans prominently, but it also has Romulus get destroyed.

Granted, now we have Picard, in which the Romulans are a prominent presence and get plenty of attention, with two Romulans in the main cast and three recurring Romulan characters. But still, that took over fifty years before the franchise really did anything meaningful with the Romulans.

And hell, despite being around since the first season of TOS, the Romulans don't have very many ship designs. In TOS there was the BoP in Balance of Terror and then they were using Klingon ships in The Enterprise Incident. TNG brought us the D'deridex warbird, which was used for pretty much the entirety of their appearances in the 90s, with a science ship seen midway in TNG (itself a reuse of a model used for many other alien ships in the 24th century) and a shuttle seen in DS9, plus the Valdore in Nemesis. In Enterprise, there was a new ship, though that was really just a variation on the TOS BoP, and the drone ship in the Aenar arc in season 4, which was itself a reuse of an alien ship from Voyager. Then finally, we get a new ship design in Picard.

 

[valkyrie013]

I agree, a number of species have been neglected at the world/character building angle.
We don't see any real history or world building that the klingon had. Was hoping Picard would solve that but as said, just dealing with some outlyers like the zhat vash or that survivor colony.
I mean.. What were they doing from 2161 to 2265? Or from 2311 to 2365? Growing bonsai trees?
Hope Picard in season 2 rectify this. Show the galaxy a bit more, see where it's at.

 

[NCC-73515]

They always were very secretive

 

[Imperator-Zor]

Giving Romulus a victory would be rather analogous to giving North Korea a victory. Those can only ever be of the propaganda sort, as anything more concrete would simply mean The End.

The Romulans are not supposed to be North Koreans. The culture they are modeled on most extensively and call to overtly is Ancient Rome. Their Homeworlds are named for the mythical founders of Ancient Rome. They are led by a Senate with praetors and procouncils, which by all indications is a legislative body in which power is shared among it's members rather an in in the hands of an autocrat. Their ships are commanded by Centurions. Their architecture is classically inspired.

Besides, we have the Klingons win and rule under the Klingon Empire would not be fun.

Zor

 

[amp]

where you have the Romulan Star Empire on it's own win? Not a victory off screen or some historical event, not them coming out of a situation without serious losses, nor a situation where they work with the Federation and profit from it, but where a scheme of theirs actually paid off for them.

In "Data's Day", we see the Romulans successfully retrieve a spy who held a high-level ambassadorial post with the Federation.

 

[Henoch]

The Romulans are not supposed to be North Koreans. The culture they are modeled on most extensively and call to overtly is Ancient Rome. Their Homeworlds are named for the mythical founders of Ancient Rome. They are led by a Senate with praetors and procouncils, which by all indications is a legislative body in which power is shared among it's members rather an in in the hands of an autocrat.

Good analysis. To add upon it, since the Romulans were still the old-style emotional Vulcans, there must have been many civil wars, assassinations and power grabs to control the Empire. (Spock said that by only embracing logic did it save their race.) I speculate that this infighting kept the Romulan Empire restrained only to a small regional zone, and not a grand-size empire. Balance of Terror gives us insight on the political and combat situations inside the Empire:

CENTURION: Take care, Commander. He has friends, and friends of his kind mean power. And power is danger.
COMMANDER: Danger and I are old companions.
CENTURION: We've seen a hundred campaigns together, and still I do not understand you.

 

[Timo]

The Romulans are not supposed to be North Koreans. The culture they are modeled on most extensively and call to overtly is Ancient Rome. Their Homeworlds are named for the mythical founders of Ancient Rome. They are led by a Senate with praetors and procouncils, which by all indications is a legislative body in which power is shared among it's members rather an in in the hands of an autocrat.

That said, they are the North Koreans, no matter how they dress. They come in a package where Vulcan is South Korea, and animosity across a Neutral Zone revolves around blood ties. Their policies are those of North Korea, with insane aggression for aggression's sake to keep th mighty (perceived) enemies on their toes, but with no desire for actual confrontations where the apparently puny realm would be annihilated. They are the party without allies, save occasionally for the #1 adversary of the UFP, whoever that happens to be at the time; Vulcan's South Korea is solidly supported by an alliance.

Inside, Romulans may cosplay Old Rome, of course. But Old Rome also had its North Korean traits: blind aggression for aggression's sake was a shrewd maneuver in inner politics, the assorted private little wars helping lowly Praetors grab personal riches while the Republic at large was indifferent to the meaningless fights.

Yet Rome did rule, and expand, and lead. Romulus never did, and probably never will. So looking from the outside, it would be inconvenient to think of Romulus as the Space Rome...

...Unless, perhaps, they once were. Like, say, 2,000 years ago. Now how cool would that be? Alas, we hear nothing of this glorious past in any context, including time travel adventures. Oh, well. At least we get nice old Romulan ruins across the galaxy.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Nyotarules]

Its called the Romulan Star Empire so they must have expanded over the decades, space is vast. They can expand and not bump into the Federation's direction.

 

[Timo]

...Unless they are separated from the rest of the galaxy by the Neutral Zone, as originally stated.

Supposedly it was called the Star Empire before the Earthlings first ran into them, too ("Minefield"), so we face two scenarios here:

1) It already was extensive and expansive, and the Earthlings then cut it down to size in the War, resulting in a border short enough that fortifying it was worth the effort.
2) It was petty and compact, despite the name, for whatever reason.

But it's not a matter of decades: it's a matter of millennia. Romulans supposedly flew to Romulus across space roughly 2,000 years ago. What stopped them from flying everywhere else, too? Or did they indeed go places, and the answer above is #1?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[somebuddyX]

I dunno. This guy did alright on his own.

Imagine if DS9 had brought T'Rul back after Voyager was finished with Martha Hackett. She could have been the Romulan Martok or something. And if she had been in Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges, either in addition to or in place of Senator Cretak, after spending several years with her, yikes.

 

[Tenacity]

Up through The Neutral Zone the Romulans had apparently been the hermit empire for many years.

North Korera

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

DS9 certainly gave the Dominion/Cardassians/Breen a few victories, even if they were relatively short lived.

 

[The Wormhole]

Imagine if DS9 had brought T'Rul back after Voyager was finished with Martha Hackett.

Personally, I'd have preferred they kept her around. I mean hell, there was pretty much a built in reason to keep her, the Defiant was using a Romulan cloaking device, so of course there should also have been a liaison officer if for no other reason than to provide technical assistance on the cloaking device. But with T'Rul around we could get some insight into Romulan culture and ways, to say nothing of the built in drama that would be available a year later when Worf joined the show and have him working side-by-side with a Romulan. The only drawback is she'd have to be absent in the first half of the sixth season when the Romulans had signed a non-aggression pact with the Dominion, but after Pale Moonlight she could come back and stay for the remainder of the series.

 

[Henoch]

The Romulan Empire and Federation relations certainly evolved (reinvented) over only three TOS episodes: "Balance of Terror" in S1; "The Deadly Years" in S2; and "The Enterprise Incident" in S3.
1. The WW2 "Enemy Below" scenario shown in BoT in S1 has them confined to their own solar system or many two systems due to a 100 year old treaty something like with a deflated Germany after WW1. They developed the military ability to launch sneak attacks on easy targets, similar to pre-WW2 Germany naval technology with submarines targeting commercial shipping at sea. The end result is that the Federation Outposts are proved to be vulnerable and obsolete. The Federation now must deal with the Romulans who are wanting to nullify the old treaty and start expansion ("all we want is breathing room"). The wise commander sees the real picture: the once, mighty Romulan Star Empire nearly destroyed by the United Earth and now isolated on its only two planets or systems. Even after a hundred years of internal wars to consolidate one party rule on Romulus and Remus, they are still no match with the now United Federation of Planets. The young Decius only sees the immediate glory and has been mislead by their Praetor's propaganda that war with the Federation is winnable. Even if they defeat one starship in one-on-one combat, the Empire could not survive the Federation's response. The Romulan Commander knows this truth that war with the Federation is madness.
2. Next in TDY in S2, we find in only one year, the RNZ is large enough that Commodore Stocker thinks he needs to take a short cut through Romulan space. If it was still only one solar system as suggested in S1, it would not be any effort just to side step it. What happened? Using the pre-WW2 analogy, when Germany started their expansionist activities, British Prime Minister Chamberlain supported an appeasement policy which basically said it was okay for Germany to seize territory across Europe. It appears that something similar occurred with the Romulans.
Mind you, right after the "Balance of Terror", we have "Errand of Mercy" were the Federation and Klingons were on the verge of war, but "higher powers" stepped in to force a peace treaty. Applying the lessen learned to the Romulans, the Fed decided that a peace treaty with Romulans should be the preferred policy going forward. They probably sent peace Ambassadors such Sarek, or heaven forbid Fox, in which the Federation abandons the old RNZ Outposts and further abandons any claim to 1/4 of known space to the Romulans establishing a new RNZ to avoid interstellar war. This new RNZ literally redraws the map to reflect later non-canon star charts showing a large Romulan Star Empire. After all, with the Fed's vastly superior technological starships, how much trouble can the inferior Romulans cause?
3. Next in TEI in S3, we find the Romulans in Klingon D7's giving them state-of-the-art FTL ships with improved cloaking devices. They now have the military technology to go forth and conquer this vast new territory. The Romulans apparently are quite happy (or busy) establishing (conquering) their new Empire while the Federation sits neutral on the side lines. It seems that the Romulans are now more related to 1960's China, and the Klingons are now the Soviet Union. TEI clearly shows a cold war environment with "Mission: Impossible" spy vs. spy activities.

I don't think the Trek story writers were thinking this Romulan evolution out this deeply; they were trying to give fun and interesting entertainment. Mind you, we have 50 more years of hindsight, and this is only one interpretation based on only three episodes. YMMV

 

[Farscape One]

In a lot of ways, what we got about Romulan society over the decades is exactly as needed based on their debute.

A large, very secretive society.

It's very alluring, as a viewer, to want to watch and learn more about them.

I honestly think we got the best scenario all this time. Romulans leave a LOT to the imagination, and that's sometimes more effective and powerful than an episode or a season devoted entirely to them.

I always wanted to know more about them, but the secrecy really makes it more fun.


Side note: I would LOVE to see a series do a season for each major race. Season 1, Romulans. Season 2, Andorians. Etc, etc.

 

[Xhiandra]

Small victory for Romulans: ENT: Minefield. They ran the Entreprise off, tail between the legs.
It's not much, but it's a win.

 

[Imaus]

The Romulan Empire and Federation relations certainly evolved (reinvented) over only three TOS episodes: "Balance of Terror" in S1; "The Deadly Years" in S2; and "The Enterprise Incident" in S3.
1. The WW2 "Enemy Below" scenario shown in BoT in S1 has them confined to their own solar system or many two systems due to a 100 year old treaty something like with a deflated Germany after WW1. They developed the military ability to launch sneak attacks on easy targets, similar to pre-WW2 Germany naval technology with submarines targeting commercial shipping at sea. The end result is that the Federation Outposts are proved to be vulnerable and obsolete. The Federation now must deal with the Romulans who are wanting to nullify the old treaty and start expansion ("all we want is breathing room"). The wise commander sees the real picture: the once, mighty Romulan Star Empire nearly destroyed by the United Earth and now isolated on its only two planets or systems. Even after a hundred years of internal wars to consolidate one party rule on Romulus and Remus, they are still no match with the now United Federation of Planets. The young Decius only sees the immediate glory and has been mislead by their Praetor's propaganda that war with the Federation is winnable. Even if they defeat one starship in one-on-one combat, the Empire could not survive the Federation's response. The Romulan Commander knows this truth that war with the Federation is madness.
2. Next in TDY in S2, we find in only one year, the RNZ is large enough that Commodore Stocker thinks he needs to take a short cut through Romulan space. If it was still only one solar system as suggested in S1, it would not be any effort just to side step it. What happened? Using the pre-WW2 analogy, when Germany started their expansionist activities, British Prime Minister Chamberlain supported an appeasement policy which basically said it was okay for Germany to seize territory across Europe. It appears that something similar occurred with the Romulans.
Mind you, right after the "Balance of Terror", we have "Errand of Mercy" were the Federation and Klingons were on the verge of war, but "higher powers" stepped in to force a peace treaty. Applying the lessen learned to the Romulans, the Fed decided that a peace treaty with Romulans should be the preferred policy going forward. They probably sent peace Ambassadors such Sarek, or heaven forbid Fox, in which the Federation abandons the old RNZ Outposts and further abandons any claim to 1/4 of known space to the Romulans establishing a new RNZ to avoid interstellar war. This new RNZ literally redraws the map to reflect later non-canon star charts showing a large Romulan Star Empire. After all, with the Fed's vastly superior technological starships, how much trouble can the inferior Romulans cause?
3. Next in TEI in S3, we find the Romulans in Klingon D7's giving them state-of-the-art FTL ships with improved cloaking devices. They now have the military technology to go forth and conquer this vast new territory. The Romulans apparently are quite happy (or busy) establishing (conquering) their new Empire while the Federation sits neutral on the side lines. It seems that the Romulans are now more related to 1960's China, and the Klingons are now the Soviet Union. TEI clearly shows a cold war environment with "Mission: Impossible" spy vs. spy activities.

I don't think the Trek story writers were thinking this Romulan evolution out this deeply; they were trying to give fun and interesting entertainment. Mind you, we have 50 more years of hindsight, and this is only one interpretation based on only three episodes. YMMV

I don't know how one can see this:

And think the Romualns are a Single System or Two System Empire? At the VERY least there are five, six big dots within the Romulan Space in this area; two being Romulus and Romii.

Seeing multiple dots per grid, I took them to be star systems. With the average density of stars being around one per five LY, a square could be ten ly or more across,, though with how slow Warp speed is maybe it is just five LY and they're in crowded space and counting red stars. I never got any impression that the Romulans were some podunk country.

A bit less advanced, yes, but still huge, warlike, and willing to throw down which made them not worth the trouble to wipe them out in 2160. I always got the impression too that the war, being fought with primitive ships with atomic weapons that didn't allow captives or quarter, was a long, drawn out affair that taxed Earth and their allies. Otherwise, why not just march to Romulus? Why stop after Cheron?