Does anyone find the Romulan/Reman inspired designs a bit...(searching for a good word, but can't think of one) ugly? The Scimitar and Nero's ship from XI are about the ugliest ships I have ever seen. Nero's ship looks like a bad rip off of V'Ger from TMP, and the Scimitar looks like a fanboy design to make it menacing against the E-E. What do you guys think? I think the fact that the Scimitar could cloak and fire weapons is enough trouble for the E-E, but 50-something torpedo launchers? Come on!
Romulan Ship Design
- Thread starter Unimatrix_0
- Start date
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
I'm quite fond of the new Warbird design. I like the old one too actually but I always found the gap in the middle to be idiotic and I never understood the need to have the nacelles connected to two different sections of the ship so the reason why I like the new warbird design is because it actually sorts that problem out.
I like the new Romulan warbird, but I've never liked the Reman one. However, that's just as much due to the lighting in the film; the concept sketches look a little better.
27. I actually think it's a grand idea for what amounts to a futuristic SSBN, a starship capable of firing a planetkilling payload immediately from cloak. The Scimitar should be able to launch as many spacedock/starship/city-smashers as possible in as short a time as possible, since we saw pretty clearly in NEM that once it has fired, the cloak becomes almost useless. (The alternative is accepting that blind fire at space-combat ranges succeeded in hitting something, which is just a little too rich for my blood.
)As for the general shape of the Scimitar, I thought it looked pretty cool. A little too pointy, perhaps. I did rather dig the reverse-capable impulse engines. My God, what will they think of next!
Of course, nothing can top the D'Deridex for aesthetic value. I wish they'd kept the D'D's nose for the Valdore, really. That was my favorite part.
To my mind, the biggest shame about coming with new designs for the Romulan vessels in Nemesis is that not really necessary as the D'Deridex is an awesome and imposing vessel that sadly never was quite conveyed enough on the small screen. When it first appeared back in TNG it swamped even the massive Galaxy class. So I'd like to have seen at least one D'Deridex in the film. And definitely, the Scimitar does not look that great on film - particularly the head on view.
I thought of the TNG-era Romulan designs and the ENT/TOS Romulan BOP as somewhat graceful yet intimidating.
The Scimitar I normally consider as a "Reman" design, not Romulan.
I think the Narada was originally quite smaller than how it appeared in Star Trek, if you go by the Countdown comic, and the fact that much of it and the Narada's crew survived the ramming of the Kelvin.
The Scimitar I normally consider as a "Reman" design, not Romulan.
I think the Narada was originally quite smaller than how it appeared in Star Trek, if you go by the Countdown comic, and the fact that much of it and the Narada's crew survived the ramming of the Kelvin.
^I could see it. The kind of apparently-pointless, biological-looking ornamentation. They both have the texture of sessile marine animals, to my eye. I agree that they're not so similar as for the Narada to be a ripoff of V'Ger, however.
D'Deridex warbird is one of my favorite designs. The others, not so much. And I agree with Mirandafave, it's a shame that it was not shown on big screen in order to fully appreciate the massivness of the ship. That ship has well over a 100 decks, a close up view of the front-side view where all the windows are would have been awesome.
Saquist
Commodore
I have agree.
The Reman War Bird Scimitar has more uselessness that is propper for Trek. The huge wing span, the massive protrusions and over detail on the model does seem to spit in the eye of the D'Deriddix Class War Bird. The Thaleron deployment system is more than just a little ridiculous.
You can just tell you're supposed to think..."This looks cool!"
But it doesn't conform to some of the known limitations of designing a ship to travel at high warp speeds with this type of hull geometry.
Warbirds and birds of prey have always had a limited high warp ability.
The Romulan Noxerian Class (Valdore)
Was a little better, The wing span was still excessive. Where the Scimitar might have the power out of the Theoretical 3 cores it was supposed to have (star trek the magezine) to stablize the ship at high speeds these "little" guys would be pushing it. They looked more Klingon than Romulan too.
Where as the original Warbird was pushing some the design vs art because of the internal arrangement the design would force, the Valdore ran away with the idea. At least the D'Derridix was big enough to actually pull that off.
Ultimately I think John Eaves work had a good start...Good Ideas but they weren't cultivated well, nor were they really allowed to become fertile. The Sovereign was one of the Biggest rush jobs I've ever seen that it need an overhaul in the Nemesis. This is Trek getting cheap.
Ultimately they shouldn't have used John Eaves to design the Romulan ships. I'd say share the responsibility with another Graphic Designer. It was too much for him to do. Refit the Nemesis and attempt to "finish it", and design two all new ships.
Enterprise-E has the overornimented and overdetailed look of a rush design job. (the same thing happens in Architecture)
As for the Nerada, I think it's one of the most imaginative new designs I've seen in years. (as is the Jellyfish) Space vehicles really shouldn't have wings and stuff. Look at the LM.
I think the amount of ornamentation on the Enterprise-E has more to do with the changing standards of how much detail is expected to make a ship look "realistic" on-screen. IIRC, the ship wasn’t really that much more ornamented than its predecessor.
I think the E-E has its issues—it certainly wasn’t as well-rationalized a design as the E-D or Voyager (when you exit the Captain’s Yacht, please don’t pump your head on the torpedo launcher). However, I think the Nemesis “overhaul” made things worse, not better. Although I’ve read about slight changes in the proportions of nacelle pylons and such, which I didn’t notice on screen, they also added gratuitously added torpedo launchers, which I certainly did notice.
I think the need to beef up the already formidable Enterprise was the result of the same flawed thinking that led to the oversized and over-spiky Scimitar—trying to make Star Trek more conventionally badass by pumping it up with more weapons and “scary” stuff. In light of this new warbirds certainly do look elegant—though the design doesn’t flow like the original Romulan warbird, it’s not too overdone. I liked the gap in the old Warbird—it indicated that these guys have a different way of thinking. Just having wings seemed a little too conventional.
Has anyone seen the original warbird designs from 1987-88? I heard that the warbirds were originally supposed to be vertically oriented—I wonder why almost all ships in Trek seem to be wider than tall…
I think the E-E has its issues—it certainly wasn’t as well-rationalized a design as the E-D or Voyager (when you exit the Captain’s Yacht, please don’t pump your head on the torpedo launcher). However, I think the Nemesis “overhaul” made things worse, not better. Although I’ve read about slight changes in the proportions of nacelle pylons and such, which I didn’t notice on screen, they also added gratuitously added torpedo launchers, which I certainly did notice.
I think the need to beef up the already formidable Enterprise was the result of the same flawed thinking that led to the oversized and over-spiky Scimitar—trying to make Star Trek more conventionally badass by pumping it up with more weapons and “scary” stuff. In light of this new warbirds certainly do look elegant—though the design doesn’t flow like the original Romulan warbird, it’s not too overdone. I liked the gap in the old Warbird—it indicated that these guys have a different way of thinking. Just having wings seemed a little too conventional.
Has anyone seen the original warbird designs from 1987-88? I heard that the warbirds were originally supposed to be vertically oriented—I wonder why almost all ships in Trek seem to be wider than tall…
The refit of Sovereign class was, frankly, a joke. While it needed those phasers on the pylons, the launchers were completely unnecessary and fanboyinsh to say the least. Did the producers ever watch a single ST episode in their lives? Adding extra launchers is like giving soldiers extra pistols and rifles, why do they need them when they can use the issued rifle and pistol? It's completely pointless and it degraded the design in my mind. Not to mention the placement of those launchers in impossible spots, and near the bridge and living areas. Nemesis was a culmination of bad leading of the franchise since Gene passed away.
As for warbird, I saw the picture of what it was supposed to look like. The head was the same, but the double hull ran vertically. I like it better in its present form, but the other design wasn't bad either.
To me, the whole design motivation was wrongheaded. NEM is offensive on so many levels. I agree that the TNG Warbird was just fine. As this movie was billed as somewhat of a goodbye to TNG, then it would only be logical that they use the design from the series. Would it not have been sweet to see Tomalok, Tebok and Sela commanding them rather than Donatra( remember the episode she was in??) Oh, and I hate the stupid redesign of the Romulan emblem. I could go on an on....
Regarding the tech aspects of the silly extra torp launchers, one might say that they were a lesson learned from the Dominion War. Apparently, starship phasers didn't do as much good against the smallest Jem'Hadar ships as they should - and phasers used to be the primary defensive weapon. Perhaps the solution was to take torps from offensive to defensive, and to add small, short-ranged torpedo weapon systems all around the various ships for self-defense purposes?
Note that we have seen the tiny runabouts fire torpedoes, too - although never at warp. Perhaps sublight torpedoes don't need big launchers with long accelerator barrels? The newer torps of the E-E never did warp. Nor, for that matter, did the quantum torps of the E-E ever get fired at FTL speeds.
Timo Saloniemi
Note that we have seen the tiny runabouts fire torpedoes, too - although never at warp. Perhaps sublight torpedoes don't need big launchers with long accelerator barrels? The newer torps of the E-E never did warp. Nor, for that matter, did the quantum torps of the E-E ever get fired at FTL speeds.
Timo Saloniemi
Saquist
Commodore
The Enterprise had the launcher above the captain’s yacht, most prominently seen firing at the cube in FC, two more launchers forward-facing launchers under the deflector dish (I’m not sure we ever saw these fire), and two more launchers at the aft ventral end of the stardrive section, which we saw at work in Insurrection. The Enterprise already had plenty of torpedo launchers. In my view she was always a bit over-weaponed: the first launcher, above the captain’s yacht, was even unnecessary.
I don’t see the rationale for adding another aft launcher on the dorsal side of the Enterprise. Typically when ships are firing torpedoes in Star Trek, they’re at such great distances that the torpedoes’ guidance systems can take care of themselves, so just one aft launcher is necessary. This is also why we don’t have turrets on starships—although I’ve seen the captain’s yacht launcher referred to as one in fandom, I doubt that it is. It would be much simpler to have the launcher stay in one place and have the torpedoes guide themselves rather than moving the launcher with each fire.
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