Romulan mind melds? Romulan nerve pinch?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by NewHeavensNewEarth, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    With Vulcans and Romulans having a shared history, it's curious that the classic Vulcan-isms have no parallels in Romulan society - such as the Vulcan mind meld, the Vulcan nerve pinch, or even Pon Farr. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

    Are there any examples of Romulan telepathy? "Nemesis" has Reman telepathy, of course, but that begs the bigger question of where the Remans fit into the offshoots from Vulcan. Were they just the locals in the solar system the Romulans settled (who also just happened to have pointy ears and telepathy like Vulcans), or were they originally of Vulcan? Genetic divergences like that immediately conjure up images from "The Time Machine," of course, but there doesn't seem to be an in-universe explanation for why the Romulans don't have basic abilities we associate with their Vulcan relatives.

    Beyond being green-blooded, the connections between Romulans & Vulcans seem superficial at best, even though reunification is seen as such a crucial issue. In the divergence, it looks like the Remans took all the cool powers with them, but still ended up under the whip of their Romulan kindred. "Live long and prosper" is not the Romulan way.
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Part of this may be the fact that the Vulcans dedicated themselves to logical study, and exploring those mental depths, while Romulans pushed their emotions in to concepts of duty and physical discipline. The Ponn Farr was a result of the Vulcans suppressing their emotions, so I would not expect the Romulans to have a similar concept, aside from ritualized combat.

    Given the more militaristic nature of Romulan society their knowledge of more telepathic abilities may be limited, or, in their more paranoid beliefs, be suppressed to avoid giving away information.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    The abilities are probably latent after centuries of disuse.
     
  4. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    To me, the opposite would make more sense - that because the Romulans were unafraid of exploring the mental & emotional depths, they would've exceeded the Vulcans' abilities by far.

    Since logic wasn't the savior of Romulan civilization the way it was for the Vulcans, it would've been interesting to hear how they did progress without annihilating themselves. "Fear" might be the readiest answer, I suppose, because it's a deeply paranoid society. All the same, there's no sense of the unhinged emotional tsunami among them that the Vulcans warned against.
     
  5. Henoch

    Henoch Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Or the Romulan genetic abilities were once treated as "evil", "witchcraft" or some other negative trait, then hunted down and tested out of existence.
     
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  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, here's something I just thought of. We know that ancient Vulcans could use their abilities to create weapons. Perhaps the Romulans either really weaponized them moreso, such as the foundations of the Tal Shiar, to keep the population and their passions in check.

    Or, conversely, the new Romulan government feared these powers and suppressed, hunted down and eradicated those with these abilities.
     
  7. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've always been of the opinion that Vulcans developed their telepathy and non-violent fighting methods after the Romulans left Vulcan.

    I don't even want to guess about Remans. They don't look anything like Vulcans or Romulans. There's something else there. I wouldn't put it passed the Romulans to have enslaved the Remans. They could be a different race entirely who also happens to have telepathic powers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  8. Kerock

    Kerock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The discipline of logic and suppressing emotion helped the Vulcans become "centered" or "focused" enough to develop certain mental skills.
     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps the Romulans suppressed any telepathic abilities to avoid being exploited by the Remans.
     
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  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    There's a fan theory about ponn farr I like, in that Romulans could very well experience it, but it isn't as noticeable in them because of the cultural differences. When Vulcans experience ponn farr, they suddenly become irrationally emotional, which leads to them going back to Vulcan, inviting their family to a grand ceremony which ultimately culminates in the Vulcan couple having sex. A Romulan, meanwhile likely has a day in which they are for some reason in a wore mood than usual, which they solve by going to a nightclub and getting laid. Ironically, Romulans are far more logical about this.

    As for the nerve pinch, there's no reason why a Romulan can't learn how to do it. After all, we've seen it done by non-Vulcans such as Data, Picard, Odo, and Michael Burnham. Romulans shouldn't have any problem at all.

    And Romulans apparently don't mind-meld or have any telepathic abilities at all.
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Basically, the reason we know about Vulcan telepathic secrets is the fact that they are so darn secret.

    The surprise revelation of a Vulcan skill is always a big shock, something nobody expected out of these people despite supposedly knowing them so well for such a long time. OTOH, everything the heroes learn about Romulans, they learn after the Vulcan dirty secrets have been brought to light - so there's very little there to actually surprise the heroes, once they learn that Romulans=Vulcans.

    Where would we "need" to witness a Romulan meld? Vulcans only do it for sex, if they can possibly avoid other uses. Romulans might be the same, and lamentably our score of Romulan sex scenes so far is close to zero, one instance of assisted psi-fantasizing and one politically/tactically motivated pettingus interruptus notwithstanding.

    Would Romulans nerve pinch? Quite possibly. But in what Trek adventure? Romulans are very seldom seen going hand-to-hand with anybody, and even Spock had to have the stars (and extras) aligned just right in order to be able to use the pinch in a fistfight. The adventures in which clever and ruggedly handsome Romulans sneak behind their alien scum victims and stun them with a pinch are no doubt legion, but only in spinoffs that don't make it to the human broadcast market.

    In this particular case, absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence - chiefly because we have too little material to go by, and most of that biased away from telepathic skill use.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. NewHeavensNewEarth

    NewHeavensNewEarth Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's a possibility, but also full of a lot of strange coincidences. The Reman viceroy was telepathic, also did mind melds, and also filled a role to Shinzon that loosely paralleled Sakkath strengthening Sarek (with limited success as well).

    I dunno, it really does leave the Vulcan-Romulan similarities/kinship as being pretty superficial in nature. But one could always theorize that the Remans are actually the missing link. :shrug:
     
  13. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't buy the Remans evolving so differently in just a few thousand years. That's a Hell of a jump. The best I can rationalize it as, and this is a stretch, would be like the Romulans and Vulcans are like Homo Sapiens and Remans are like Neanderthals. They're a related species but not the same species. Only difference is the Remans never went extinct, while the Neanderthals did.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  14. Henoch

    Henoch Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Humans and Neanderthals were on the same planet competing for the same resources. Conflict/Absorption occurred ten thousand years ago when populations were small. Romulans and Remans were on different planets not competing for the same resources giving each race thousands of years to grow into large populations.
     
  15. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think my main thing is: how do you go from looking like a Romulan to looking like a Reman in such a short amount of time? Has that ever happened in nature before with such a complex species? It could happen in sci-fi because the Remans had to adapt to their environment. But it seems odd. They have the pointed ears but are hairless and have far more, I guess you could call ridges on their cranium. The cranial structure is what does it. The different skin color and the scaling in and of itself, I could see as evolving due to the environment, even if it was so fast.

    Maybe Vulcans, Romulans, and Remans used to all look the same, then they just split off into three different directions that made the Romulans a little different from Vulcans and Remans a lot different.
     
  16. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    It was addressed in one of the novels. There was heavy mutation due to the environment on Remus as well as the presence of some bizarre symbiotic microorganism, or something like that. But none of this is ever mentioned in the movie. So they may as well have been a completely unrelated species that was subjugated by the Romulans.

    Kor
     
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  17. Henoch

    Henoch Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Finger touching et. al. was performed with Spock by the Romulan Commander in The Enterprise Incident. I always thought that the finger stuff was a form on telepathic contact, but, maybe it was just finger touching which for an unemotional Vulcan is considered as mad, crazy sex.
     
  18. MAGolding

    MAGolding Captain Captain

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    Who says that Pon Farr is a result of Vulcans supressing their emotions? Memory Alpha does not. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Pon_farr

    In "Amok Time" just a few hours or days after learning about Pon Farr for the first time, Dr. McCoy says:

    The connection between Pon Farr and having no emotions the rest of the time is just a speculation by Dr. McCoy, and McCoy clearly labels it as a speculation by saying "perhaps".

    So is there some other canon mention of Pon Farr that reinforces McCoy's speculation?
     
  19. Henoch

    Henoch Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Pon Farr is not due to emotional suppression nor mental discipline, it's biologically inherent in all Vulcans. And Vulcans can have sex anytime they want:
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I must be misremembering from a novel that I read. I thought that "Yesterday's Son" alluded to the possible impact, but I'll freely admit that I might have just made it up. Oops.