Romulan Government in TUC

[Jetboogieman]

In The Undiscovered Country, given that the Romulan Ambassador was a co-conspirator in the plot to have the Klingon Empire and the Federation go to war, is it safe to assume that his involvement was ordered and part of a larger involvement by the highest levels of the Romulan Government and the Tal Shiar, and if so, do you think perhaps General Chang may have had some deal in place with the Romulans to wage war against the Federation together?

 

[Timo]

I'd say the Klingons and the Feds both had a small cabal of warhawks in their midst, acting against the legitimate government - but the Romulans were in it lock, stock and barrel, with full governmental backing.

Klingons and Feds had been blood enemies for the better part of a century. Why had they not fought an open and decisive war yet? Apparently because neither side believed it would be sufficiently stronger to ensure a clean victory. But if one side or the other managed to ally with the Romulans, then that side could start a war with the confidence of winning.

Romulans would of course benefit from a war between the two foes that was not clean - a more or less evenly fought conflict where both sides would be mortally hurt. So it would be in their interest to secretly promise one side the full support of the Romulan Star Empire - and then secretly promise the other side the very same thing. That would make both sides go to war with false confidence.

That the Romulan Ambassador was part of the most secret war plans of the Federation goes to show that something like the above promise was indeed made to the Federation. That Chang dared go to war on his part suggests that he was promised more or less the same thing.

But Chang and Cartwright were also helping each other, because without such cooperation the respective governments would not agree to going to war yet. So Cartwright gave Chang what he needed for assassinating Gorkon (Federation-lookalike torps plus the presence of James T. Kirk), and Chang gave Cartwright an unfair trial of Kirk to anger the UFP leadership. But both also prepared for backstabbing, probably knowing fully well what the other was doing but not caring because both believed they had the secret Romulan ace in their sleeve...

A Starfleet conspiracy against Starfleet and a Klingon conspiracy against Klingons would both have been absolutely necessary for igniting the desired war. OTOH, there was no need for, and no evidence of, a Romulan conspiracy against Romulus. All the Romulan actions were for the greater good of the Romulan Star Empire, including the arranging of the Khitomer conference (apparently the doing of the Romulans, as their symbols presided over the venue).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mark 2000]

No, the Organians did it.

 

[Tomalak]

All the Romulan actions were for the greater good of the Romulan Star Empire, including the arranging of the Khitomer conference (apparently the doing of the Romulans, as their symbols presided over the venue).

Timo Saloniemi

Doesn't Azetbur call it a "neutral site"? Seems Khitomer is a Romulan planet at this point, though it was later conquered by the Klingons, which in turn provoked the Romulan massacre which caught out Colonel Worf's son.

 

[Timo]

We don't know if Khitomer is Romulan or perhaps is owned by some other non-UFP, non-Klingon entity at that point. Romulans fly their banner very prominently over the site, and have a later connection to the planet, so they are a likely suspect. But there's another banner there that goes completely unexplained: an aurora symbol associated with green flags and green sashes, apparently exclusively worn by humanlike attendees. Perhaps those are the actual hosts (although doing it on Romulan bidding)?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[od0_ital]

By "neutral," it may have simply not have been claimed by anyone - neither the Romulans or the Klingons had expanded their borders enough to claim it. By the time the Klingons did, it pissed the Romulans off, and that's why there was an attack that claimed the lives of a whole bunch of folks, includin' Worf's parents.

 

[Tomalak]

The President says something like "The Federation welcomes you to Camp Khitomer". Maybe it was another joint venture, like Sherman's Planet and Nimbus III?

 

[Timo]

We have to speculate on whether Azetbur in turn welcomed the attendees on behalf of the Klingon Empire...

I guess that it wouldn't be impossible for the 23rd century empires to pick an uninhabited but somewhat habitable world and to build a congress center there within something like two days, including a bit of pretty landscaping. But the place does look more or less established by today's standards. Perhaps it's a longstanding conference venue of human origin (with the green-sashed folks as the hosts) that's only "neutral" in the sense that it's equally far from Starfleet and Klingon military bases?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[danellis]

Perhaps it's a longstanding conference venue of human origin (with the green-sashed folks as the hosts) that's only "neutral" in the sense that it's equally far from Starfleet and Klingon military bases?

Timo Saloniemi

I think StarTrek's made it clear that "human-looking" by no means indicates their being of "human origin."

dJE

 

[Timo]

True enough - but would Klingons bother to acknowledge this distinction? If the green-sash people indeed are the hosts of the conference, how could they ever be considered neutral by the Klingon side?

Perhaps green marked those participants of the conference who weren't actual delegates and could only spectate? Naturally, there'd be no Klingon participants interested in such a thing...

This little mystery has gone unsolved for quite a few years now. TrekCore has the fifth draft script online, with references to the Earth/UFP delegation wearing green sashes. The Vulcan delegation is tentatively scripted as yellow, and the Klingon one as brown. Many details on that script version differ from the end product - character names, the lack of Romulan involvement (the military-industrial complex replaces them as the background baddies), the use of Saavik instead of the introduction of Valeris. But perhaps some things for the film were prepared on basis of the earlier script versions, and a supply of green sashes and flags was among them?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Oso Blanco]

apparently the doing of the Romulans, as their symbols presided over the venue

Where exactly? I never noticed any Romulan symbols there ...

 

[Timo]

The two entrances to the venue have the Romulan and the UFP banners, respectively; the Klingon one is strangely absent from the building... And the Romulan one sits above the entrance that the procession of flags, banners, standards and diplomats appears to use.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/ch11/tuchd2127.jpg

OTOH, in the hall, the yellow delegation is spearheaded by Sarek and Nanclus. Behind them is a mass of yellow-sash people, some of whom display emotion at the conclusion of the assassination attempt (that is, they smile rather broadly), and may thus be Romulans. There are two yellow decorations behind them - but both of them have the IDIC symbol, rather than Romulan motifs. None of the hall decorations appear to feature the Raptor.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/ch11/tuchd2134.jpg

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/ch13/tuchd2477.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Oso Blanco]

Good eyes, Timo!

Despite the broad smiles, I'd say they are Vulcans and Nanclus is only there as an observer ... I can't imagine the Vulcan and the Romulan delegation peacefully sitting together side by side.

 

[Timo]

Seeing the Romulans in close cahoots with the UFP government was enough of a shock already. Perhaps the Romulans originally officially approached the Federation through Vulcan?

Remember that "Unification" mentions Sarek and the Romulan Pardek developing a rapport during Khitomer; this was a launching point for the reunification movement that would eventually be featured in the TNG episode. Romulus could well have used reunification talks as the pretense for approaching the Federation, and then revealed the "true" intent of their approach - the intent of supporting the UFP in the upcoming war with the Klingons. But since the Klingons couldn't be told about this "true" intent, Romulans would continue to sit with Vulcans on "talks about reunification", also during the Khitomer conference.

Nanclus would have been found personally guilty of deceit, and Romulus may have been condemned in general, but apparently Sarek thought that Pardek at least had been acting in good faith and/or that some good could come out of this after all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Uxi]

Vulcan is a members of the Federation so can't technically be neutral anyway. Interesting that they had their own sashes. Vulcans should have probably been leaders of the "peace" faction inside the Federation and had blue sashes.

 

[Timo]

The Klingons are a distinct minority in that conference no matter what. There are five blocks of seats in the conference, and blue sashes hold two of them (one in Starfleet uniforms, the other in civilian gear). Then there's the yellow section, and then the fully human green one. Plus, the podium and the attendee pulpits are all decorated with the UFP symbol.

It might not be too objectionable, then, to assume that all the blue, green and yellow factions are enemies of the red Klingon faction, and there are no truly neutral attendees. Perhaps the yellow ones merely reflect the diplomatic arm of the UFP, the blue ones the military arm, and the green ones the domestic political arm? "Neutrality" might be limited to the Romulans borrowing the planet and the building, and sending their Ambassador-to-the-Federation as their overseer... The Feds would still be the formal hosts and the explicit overdogs.

Timo Saloniemi