Romulan Bird of Prey, Where Art Thou?

[Shawnster]

Clearly, the line meant the two governments had arrived at a point of cooperation.

Cooperation is the explanation that makes most sense. I've seen the spy suggestion, but that has a flaw. The Klingons know everything there is to know about their ships. To steal the plans of an enemy in order to build duplicates of the ship for your own navy is not tactically sound. Since the enemy, the Klingons, know and understand the tech and design, they can easily exploit any weakness, intimately know how each and every system operates, and would even now the deck layout by heart. This makes combat, sabotage, and boarding actions so much easier.

An alliance of some kind is the most logical answer. Either the Romulans bought or traded for the ships outright or for the plans and construction specs.

 

[Dukhat]

Spock's comment was all the explanation the characters and audience needed to know the one and only "why" behind the Romulans using a Klingon Battle Cruiser.

That still doesn’t negate its vagueness as an intelligence report.

Clearly, the line meant the two governments had arrived at a point of cooperation.. No other commentary would have added anything relevant to that fact, so thankfully, Spock's line was short and to the point.

No, it does not clearly mean that, since I gave three different interpretations of Spock’s line, any one of which could have been the right one. If you received an intelligence report about sea ships which stated “the Chinese are now using American designs,” would you automatically assume the Chinese and the Americans have some kind of alliance going on?

 

[Maurice]

The Chinese used lots of Russian-made aircraft. Arms sales don't necessarily mean warm and friendly relations. Sometimes you arm someone you don't like to create trouble for someone you like even less.

 

[feek61]

And with the state of computer and electronics technology it certainly would be handy to have a "back door" in to a weapons system of your enemy; one that you sold them. Anyone remember the printers the U.S. sent to Iraq before the Gulf War? They had a virus that infected the entire Iraq defense network the night of the first airstrikes which help with the success of the air campaign greatly.

 

[scotpens]

The Chinese used lots of Russian-made aircraft. Arms sales don't necessarily mean warm and friendly relations. Sometimes you arm someone you don't like to create trouble for someone you like even less.

And sometimes an ally-of-convenience copies your designs because it's easier than developing their own.

Wiki link: Tupolev TU-4

 

[alensatemybuick1]

Anyone remember the printers the U.S. sent to Iraq before the Gulf War? They had a virus that infected the entire Iraq defense network the night of the first airstrikes which help with the success of the air campaign greatly.

Sorry, that was a hoax:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AF/91

 

[The Old Mixer]

That still doesn’t negate its vagueness as an intelligence report.

The line was Spock confirming something based on intelligence he'd seen. As they were in the Neutral Zone and in the process of being surrounded by Romulan vessels, delivering a more detailed report on the situation to the bridge crew wouldn't have been the most practical thing to do at the time.

 

[Dukhat]

How hard would it have been for Spock to say, “the Romulans and Klingons have formed an alliance?”

 

[The Old Mixer]

Was it relevant to the situation at hand?

 

[Dukhat]

No more or less relevant than what he actually said. Just better and more useful information in the same amount of words.

 

[The Old Mixer]

It was more useful to convey that those were Romulan ships, even though they were of Klingon design. Any alliance that may have resulted in the Romulans having those ships was completely irrelevant to the situation at hand.

 

[Maurice]

There was deleted dialog in "The Enterprise Incident" wherein...

SPOCK
Yet with all your innovations you go to the Klingons for their new vessels.
They are known to have little honor. I do not understand Romulan dealings
with them.

 

[feek61]

Sorry, that was a hoax:

https//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AF/91

No!! The Hoax story was the hoax!

 

[Dukhat]

There was deleted dialog in "The Enterprise Incident" wherein...

SPOCK
Yet with all your innovations you go to the Klingons for their new vessels.
They are known to have little honor. I do not understand Romulan dealings
with them.

Was there more to this dialogue? I’m assuming he was speaking to the Romulan Commander. I’d be interested in her response.

Also, this dialogue seems to imply that a) the Romulans didn’t build the ships, and b) they didn’t steal them. They got them directly from the Klingons as the result of “dealings,” which also implies at least some kind of alliance, even if it was only for materiel.

It was more useful to convey that those were Romulan ships, even though they were of Klingon design. Any alliance that may have resulted in the Romulans having those ships was completely irrelevant to the situation at hand.

I'm aware that it was irrelevant to the situation at hand. It doesn't change the fact that it's a vague statement.

 

[alensatemybuick1]

No!! The Hoax story was the hoax!

Next you'll be desperately insisting that Margaret Armen was in TLOZ against all evidence to the contrary....

 

[Phaser Two]

Is there another way other than airdate-wise the Klingon ship model could have first been seen on TV?

Heh, well, no, but I think JB's point was that they didn't need to have Scotty sound like a doofus because they had filmed EOT already. Unless they knew TEI would be aired first when they made EOT.

I like the modern naval analogies. You're sailing on a U.S. Navy vessel in the Arctic Sea. Suddenly, GASP! Everyone looks dumbfounded on the bridge as something comes into view ahead and the second officer blurts out, "That’s a Chinese ship!!!" The first officer, looking up from a radar screen, coolly says, "Intelligence reports Russians now using Chinese designs."

-Shouldn't the first officer have shared this earlier?
-Is he on the horn right then with an "intelligence" guy saying, "Hey, guess what? In case this might be relevant . . . . "
-Why wouldn't the second officer and the equally baffled-looking captain know that?
-Using Chinese designs to do what?

Honestly, the line is "No blah blah blah" bad.

 

[Forbin]

The new FX in the retread of The Enterprise Incident replaced one of the D7's with a Romulan warbird.

No, they replaced one with a Romulan Bird of Prey.
The Romulan Warbird is the very large ship that first appeared in TNG.

 

[Marsden]

Is there another way other than airdate-wise the Klingon ship model could have first been seen on TV?

With a time machine?

Spock's comment was all the explanation the characters and audience needed to know the one and only "why" behind the Romulans using a Klingon Battle Cruiser. Clearly, the line meant the two governments had arrived at a point of cooperation.. No other commentary would have added anything relevant to that fact, so thankfully, Spock's line was short and to the point.

Excellent point, I liked @Dukhat point that the line was vague but this is the correct answer.

How hard would it have been for Spock to say, “the Romulans and Klingons have formed an alliance?”

It would have been impossible. They had not. There was no alliance.


The following is totally non-canon so I'm warning you now.

After the failed war that involved the Organians, the Klingon Empire and UFP were still at odds. I admit I forgot a detail but basically StarFleet Command thought they could stem "incidents" of Klingon attacks by redistributing more of the fleet to that border in a more aggressive stance. This caused the Klingons to look elsewhere to try to put pressure back on the UFP and their solution was the Treaty of Smarba with the Romulans where they sold some of their mothballed reserve fleet to the Romulans to put pressure on that border. The Klingons were not selling their best of anything but for the Romulans it was a huge step up in fleet power. Previously their finest flagship was easily defeated by a single UFP cruiser, so getting the aging battlecruisers from the Klingons really helped short term and also helped them modernize their existing fleet with better warp drives. The part about cloaking tech going to the Klingons was added to the treaty after ST III.

 

[johnnybear]

I think there was an alliance of sorts which led to Romulans using Klingon designed ships and the Klingons gaining cloaking technology! That last bit also proves that TOS, the original timeline is not the same one as seen in DSC! But the alliance only lasted for three or more solar years as Kor was the Klingon who led the battle against the Romulans at Klach D'Kel Brakt in 2271!
JB

 

[Maurice]

Was there more to this dialogue? I’m assuming he was speaking to the Romulan Commander. I’d be interested in her response.

I'll have to dig up the shooting script. That was the last of a half dozen lines from a trim reproduced in Star Trek Lost Scenes.