Romance and DS9

[Kate Nichols]

I know that a lot of folks prefer the romance of Worf and Jadzia over Odo and Kira, but I totally disagree. Although I like both Worf and Jadzia individually, I’ve seen seen more exciting couples in my day. I didn’t hate them, but . . . I think that Ofo and Kira had far more potential, their initial meeting on Bajor, their frienship, his obsession with her and then Vic and their kiss. But, they certainly dropped the ball after, hardly any insight into their life as a couple until he became sick and then ended the war by curing the other shifters. And, then he leaves her after years of his eternal love for her, even ending the existence of the 8000 descendants of DS 9 on the planet by changing the ship’s routing so that she would live. It’s been said that Star Trek doesn’t do romance that well in general and as great as DS9 was, it had that same failing. As good as they were with character exploration and growth, and with friendship. . .

 

[Tosk]

It’s been said that Star Trek doesn’t do romance that well in general and as great as DS9 was, it had that same failing.

Except that unlike many other Treks, DS9 at least spent time on the relationships as opposed to having the character fall madly in love for just one episode, only to have the love interest disappear forever. (Although DS9 definitely fell into that quite a few times too, Second Sight, Meridian, Profit and Loss, Melora, etc.) I appreciated that regardless of the outcome or chemistry, many of the DS9 relationships were more drawn out. Ben and Kasidy, Odo and Nerys, Worf and Jadzia, Nerys and Bareil, and Shakaar...and of course, Miles and Keiko.

 

[Kate Nichols]

Yes, that's right. There were no long-term romances on the original series or TNG. Beverly Crusher was married, but already a widow on the show. Will and Troi supposedly went out at one time, but again, they were already broken up when the show started. And during the last couple of seasons, there were signals that Worf and Troi may get together, but that never occurred, except in fantasy sequences. So, at least DS9 had the more realistic approach of having some of the characters married, engaged or dating,

 

[HugeLobes]

In fairness, TNG was a very different type of show. They didn't concentrate much on character development (NOT a bad thing), so real relationships weren't really in the cards.

I was interested in Odo/Kira, until it happened. I really can't imagine Kira wanting to data Odo, and their relationship never felt quite right to me. There was more potential in just leaving it unsaid or unrequited. I think that would have felt more natural.

 

[E-DUB]

And the less said about Leeta/Rom the better.

 

[Tosk]

There were no long-term romances on the original series or TNG.

To be fair...the O'Briens.

 

[Kate Nichols]

Yes, ha ha, the O'Brien's. How easy it is to forget them.

 

[Kate Nichols]

In fairness, TNG was a very different type of show. They didn't concentrate much on character development (NOT a bad thing), so real relationships weren't really in the cards.

I was interested in Odo/Kira, until it happened. I really can't imagine Kira wanting to data Odo, and their relationship never felt quite right to me. There was more potential in just leaving it unsaid or unrequited. I think that would have felt more natural.

Why can't you imagine Kira wanting to date Odo, because she is more attractive than him?

 

[kkt]

Because he's not a leader among Bajorans?

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I wish more time had been given to Ben and Kasidy. After seeing more of Penny Johnson Jerald in The Orville I have to say she was underused on DS9.

 

[Tosk]

And funnily enough she was in only four fewer eps than Keiko, which is pretty good for someone who wasn't even mentioned until late in season 3.

 

[Nakita Akita]

And the less said about Leeta/Rom the better.

I agree with that but my pet peeve relationship is Jadzia and Worf.
Other than just sex, I can't see why they would be attracted to one another.
I can possibly see the whole opposites attract but in the sense that each is very accepting of how the other person behaves.
To me it seems that neither of them accepts the behavior of the other.
I think if Jadzia had lived, they would have ended up seperated anyway.
It was the same with Ka'lar from Next Generation. Her and Worf fought all of the time too.

 

[HugeLobes]

Why can't you imagine Kira wanting to date Odo, because she is more attractive than him?

Why would she want to date him? The guys Kira liked before were totally different from Odo, and the two of them never had any chemistry beyond friendship. Actors generally have a pretty solid grip on their characters, and neither Nana or Rene were happy about the relationship.

I agree with that but my pet peeve relationship is Jadzia and Worf.
Other than just sex, I can't see why they would be attracted to one another.

See, I kinda agree with this, but at least Worf and Jadzia felt like a couple while they were on screen together - there was definitely chemistry between them. For all the goofiness of the idea, Rom and Leeta also felt like a couple, at least to me. Odo and Kira just felt like two friends who awkwardly started dating.

Trek had a bad habit of assuming every female character needed a love interest, and I think Kira/Odo was the worst result.

 

[Tenacity]

There were no long-term romances on the original series

Kirk and Spock.

 

[Kate Nichols]

I agree with that but my pet peeve relationship is Jadzia and Worf.
Other than just sex, I can't see why they would be attracted to one another.
I can possibly see the whole opposites attract but in the sense that each is very accepting of how the other person behaves.
To me it seems that neither of them accepts the behavior of the other.
I think if Jadzia had lived, they would have ended up seperated anyway.
It was the same with Ka'lar from Next Generation. Her and Worf fought all of the time too.

I actually thought that Worf was best with Troi. Even though she wasn't the great of actresses, I thought that they had a connection.

 

[Kate Nichols]

Why would she want to date him? The guys Kira liked before were totally different from Odo, and the two of them never had any chemistry beyond friendship. Actors generally have a pretty solid grip on their characters, and neither Nana or Rene were happy about the relationship.

I actually thought that their build up was pretty good, much better than Worf and Jadzia. And, yes, the men she dated before him were totally different. But, just the fact that he loved her so much may have attracted her. I remember that episode where they landed on a planet where there lived descendants of DS9 and the Odo descendant changed the route of the Defiant in order that the timeline would change and Kira wouldn't die as she did originally. This is the episode when she found out how Odo felt about her. In the last scene of the episode, Odo told her that that descendant Odo changed the Defiant's route so that Kira would not die, but all of the descendants ceased to exist. She was shocked and upset and asked him: Was worth it: And, he said: He thought so. But, you could tell that he thought so, too. They did have a connection.

 

[HugeLobes]

"But, just the fact that he loved her so much may have attracted her."

I don't know, this sounds like the justification of "friend-zoned" men across the world, and not a bit like Kira. The fact is she didn't show any romantic feelings for Odo before finding out he liked her. I guess that could partly be because she didn't really get his deal, but I don't think it's a great sign.

I agree that the buildup was good. I just think it would have felt more natural if that buildup hadn't led to a relationship; instead, Odo would have to work through unrequited feelings.

 

[Tosk]

The fact is she didn't show any romantic feelings for Odo before finding out he liked her. I guess that could partly be because she didn't really get his deal, but I don't think it's a great sign.

The exact same scenario happened with Nana and Sid, so it's hardly far-fetched.

Trek had a bad habit of assuming every female character needed a love interest, and I think Kira/Odo was the worst result.

How many male characters went without a love interest?

 

[Kate Nichols]

"But, just the fact that he loved her so much may have attracted her."

I don't know, this sounds like the justification of "friend-zoned" men across the world, and not a bit like Kira. The fact is she didn't show any romantic feelings for Odo before finding out he liked her. I guess that could partly be because she didn't really get his deal, but I don't think it's a great sign.

I agree that the buildup was good. I just think it would have felt more natural if that buildup hadn't led to a relationship; instead, Odo would have to work through unrequited feelings.

Well, in the real world, there are many relationships and marriages that begin with friendship. To quote Vic: She already likes you; you're halfway there. And, though, her previous two lovers were "hotter" in looks, Odo is interesting and he loves and appreciates her, and understands her. Kira is no longer 25. After a certain age, superficial characteristics aren't what matters quite as much. One may become quite attracting by other characteristics. My problem with them is the lack of "them" between the kiss and him becoming sick.

 

[Kate Nichols]

[QUOTE="HugeLobes, post: 12711882, member: 75618"
Trek had a bad habit of assuming every female character needed a love interest, and I think Kira/Odo was the worst result.[/QUOTE]
As a woman with many girlfriends, from the types who only desire from life to be wife and mother to strong, independent career types, I can tell you that even the career types want to be in a relationship, and yes, even a husband.