While Rogue One's cameo by Walrus Man was pointless and dumb, TFA was literally two full hours of non-stop fan service.
I cannot imagine how anyone could think Rogue One was more "fan servicey" than TFA.
Rogue One Vs The Force Awakens
- Thread starter Saul
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While Rogue One's cameo by Walrus Man was pointless and dumb, TFA was literally two full hours of non-stop fan service.
I cannot imagine how anyone could think Rogue One was more "fan servicey" than TFA.
You're allowed to like TFA more than R1. You're NOT allowed to say that R1 has more "fanboy callbacks" than TFA, since that is insane and also just plain mathematically wrong.
Have you actually done the math yourself?
I think you'll be surprised how much of it there is Rogue One...
Based upon....what exactly?
TFA has a handful of callbacks that are occasionally distracting and one in particular that is cringe-worthy. RO on the other hand is almost entirely built on being self-referential and squeezes in characters and subplots that do nothing to serve the story purely for the purpose of including more nostalgia.
Based on Rogue One, I'm looking forward to the Anthology sideline more than the sequel trilogy.
Totally jealous of hardcore Star Wars fans currently having their cake and eating it - in terms of moving forward into a new generation of characters, while having substantial roles for the old guard... AND having always had the dots connected backwards to lesser loved prequels through animated TV shows. That's kind of spilled over on to the big screen, with various backstories in that universe being expanded upon, knowing audiences will pay to see such films. I intend to show up and enjoy them until the Boba Fett or inevitable Obi-Wan effort bombs badly, I suppose.
Totally jealous of hardcore Star Wars fans currently having their cake and eating it - in terms of moving forward into a new generation of characters, while having substantial roles for the old guard... AND having always had the dots connected backwards to lesser loved prequels through animated TV shows. That's kind of spilled over on to the big screen, with various backstories in that universe being expanded upon, knowing audiences will pay to see such films. I intend to show up and enjoy them until the Boba Fett or inevitable Obi-Wan effort bombs badly, I suppose.
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To a point they may be justifiable. While I can accept maybe half of Red and Gold Leaders, Mon Mothma, General Dodonna, Bail Organa, Princess Leia, Tarkin, Darth Vader, Mustafar, some random Clone Wars vehicle, the Ghost, General Sedulla, Chopper, Artoo, Threepio, (apparently) Wedge's voice, and the two cantina dudes (I'm probably missing a few), once you put them all together? In my opinion, it was just TOO much in one movie!
You have three characters (the cantina dudes and Bail) who are just in the movie to appear, wave and go off and get killed or have their arm cut off. (And the cantina dude cameo is TERRIBLE anyway. And no I don't have a problem that they were on Jedda before it exploded. It's fine if not terribly convenient.) You have the droids which is about the worst placement of a cameo of all time with a pathetic line from Threepio. Why weren't they just on the Tantive IV? Mustafar was cool but the scene would have worked just fine elsewhere. Mon Mothma's stuff could have been handled just fine by Dodonna or Bail Organa (I admit it was nice to see him). I love the references to "the Force of Others" and "the Whills." That stuff was really cool. The rest of the cameos are just fine.
Oh.
Except one.
People will vehemently disagree with me but why is Darth Vader even in this movie except to have a (admittedly cool but pointless) fanwank moment at the end of the movie that causes more continuity errors than it cleans up? I have never had such a love/hate relationship with a single scene in a movie.
Rogue One all the way for me. TFA I found to be entertaining, and I really enjoyed seeing the old cast again, but, bar the Luke ending thought the last act of the film sucked. The X Wing battle just didn't excite me, and I thought Starkiller base was just... shit. The new characters I liked in the main, but the whole thing was just too much of a corny retread of ANH, and I don't think it's even got the rewatch value of JJ's Trek movies, and has slipped down my rankings with every viewing. Ultimately I'd put it on a par with the prequels (which I like by the way).
Rogue One on the other hand I found to be immersive and gripping from start to finish, and in my opinion, blows TFA out of the water in just about every department.
Rogue One on the other hand I found to be immersive and gripping from start to finish, and in my opinion, blows TFA out of the water in just about every department.
I have issue with the entire scene. Why is the Tantive there? I know that the Story Team has said that the idea was that the General, Admiral, whatever, was supposed to escort Leia to Tatooine, but that makes little sense to me. You have a courier who is supposed to be delivering plans vital to the survival of the Rebellion in the belly of a ship during a huge battle? That makes no sense. Then, you have Vader, who says
Well, they weren't beamed to THAT ship. They were beamed to the General's ship. Then the soldiers ran the plans to a door, that conveniently wouldn't open except for a small bit, which led to a slaughter. Its damned convenient and a plot contrivance for a cool moment.
I believe the scene would work better if someone from the film proper, why not Bodhi? Because I felt his character was just a plot device anyway, so why not finish it off? I think it would work better if Bodhi actually survived on the planet, and as opposed to getting it transmitted out because something happened, maybe the long distance transmitter gets destroyed and the only way out is to get it off planet. So Bodhi somehow gets the plans, and takes off in a shuttle with a few surviving rebels. Tarkin orders the destruction of Scarif; Krennic, Cassian and Jyn die. The rest of the fleet goes to hyperspace, but several ships including an Interdictor and Vader's destroyer come in. Bodhi can't escape. They're pulled in with a tractor beam. Bodhi is starting to try to transmit but he's having issues as the Imperials are blocking all signals. The rebels are getting ready for boarding, almost mirroring the scene at the beginning of ANH, but then the scene continues almost as in Rogue One, but instead as others are mowed down behind him, Bodhi manages to transmit the signal. A look of relief crosses his face just before we see a red blade cut through his chest. Vader pushes Bodhi's corpse aside and sees where the signal went to -- a ship on the edge of the system.
We cut to the Tantive IV where two droids, Artoo and Threepio are monitoring a station. Threepio tells an Ensign something is coming through. The Ensign burns the files to a disk and goes running to take it to Captain Antilles. Antilles then gives it to a figure in white asking her what it is. Princess Leia turns and responds with one word: "Hope."
That, in my opinion, acts as a far better bridge scene by keeping a character who you just spent two hours with (whose character would need to be expanded a bit to add more of an emotional impact to his death) dying as he saves the rebellion. It keeps intact the Vader moment. It keeps intact the continuity from ANH and it keeps the intent of the scene the same. I just think it works much better myself but I may be the only one.
No, you have an escort to go pick up a Jedi Master. That was Leia's mission. The trouble was the Tantive IV was undergoing repair, so the Admiral was going to be their ride to the Tatooine System, but Scariff happens, and that is considered more important, so the Tantive IV goes along for the ride. Leia's mission had nothing to do with the plans for the Death Star, until they were literally handed over to her. Wouldn't put it past them to have had the damage to Leia's ship prior to the Battle of Scariff happen in Star Wars: Rebels in a few years, and be the cause of how the Empire was able to disable her ship over Tatooine. Just to link things together.
Also, that the transmissions were beamed to the ship the Tantive IV was in rather than the ship itself is immaterial, since the smaller ship was inside the larger ship. It may not be entirely accurate, but it is still true. The transmissions could have been routed to the smaller ship so it could escape, or be seen as a giant lifeboat. It helps a bit later when the Imperial can find no evidence that the plans were ever on the ship, no transmissions were made, since the only set of plans were never in the ship's main computer, but on a disk that was later placed into R2-D2.
Fair on the Jedi Master part. You're correct there.
And the rationale for the Admiral being there as an escort is all well and good but it was not explained in the movie. It had to be made up after the fact because they either cut it or felt it wasn't important. Do I think everything needs dots connected? No, but this is important because without that explanation its pretty ridiculous.
I'm probably splitting hairs here, but the line is:
There's no comment that the plans were never aboard the ship. And the idea that no transmissions were made, to me, indicates off the ship. So, the line leaves enough wiggle room for the transmission to come to Tantive IV AND to be deleted.
It does, though that's way they could do it the way they did in Rogue One.
As they mentioned in the Star Wars Show special, that part kept getting questioned by the Story Group, but after seeing a rough cut, they thought it was too funny to cut out.
As they mentioned in the Star Wars Show special, that part kept getting questioned by the Story Group, but after seeing a rough cut, they thought it was too funny to cut out.
Well, that's nice. I thought it was silly. And not in a laughing way. More in a smiling politely asking, "Really?" way.
Obviously I don't run Lucasfilm so I have no say. The movie is fine in my opinion (average but fine) and having these cameos and references and things that don't necessarily jibe is totally their decision. I am just stating how I think the movie could have been a little better.
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