Rogue One (2016) [SW Anthology Series)

[martok2112]

It would make sense if Tarkin really did consider Vader a friend, assuming he knew Vader's true identity. In The Clone Wars, Anakin and Tarkin met on a mission and established a rapport pretty quickly.

That they did. (It was cool seeing Tarkin in that episode)

I submit that it's also possible that Vader was re-introduced to Tarkin during the Moff's/Grand Moff's time at Imperial Court, albeit without Tarkin realizing that Vader was formerly Anakin Skywalker. Tarkin could well have been one of the few, if only, non-Force users let in to Vader's "inner circle" because the former Anakin recognized and knew Tarkin as a ruthlessly efficient officer.

Largely, it was only a few surviving Jedi (and, of course, the Emperor) who would know that Vader was formerly Anakin Skywalker. It isn't really known if Tarkin knew of Vader's origins.

It could be implied that Tarkin did know because of his line: "The Jedi are extinct; their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

Implication 1: Tarkin knew Vader was Anakin, and formerly a Jedi.

Implication 2: Tarkin used the term Jedi as a catchall phrase for Force-users much as one of us might use Coke as a catchall phrase for sodas. Hence "you are all that's left of their religion." He might not really differentiate between Jedi and Sith. He makes no mention of Sith in the film.

Implication 3: Same as above, except that Tarkin has no idea that Vader was formerly his old comrade, Skywalker. The "my friend" part being delivered loosely, but not entirely insincerely.

Just my takes on it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It would make sense if Tarkin really did consider Vader a friend, assuming he knew Vader's true identity. In The Clone Wars, Anakin and Tarkin met on a mission and established a rapport pretty quickly.

That they did. (It was cool seeing Tarkin in that episode)

I submit that it's also possible that Vader was re-introduced to Tarkin during the Moff's/Grand Moff's time at Imperial Court, albeit without Tarkin realizing that Vader was formerly Anakin Skywalker. Tarkin could well have been one of the few, if only, non-Force users let in to Vader's "inner circle" because the former Anakin recognized and knew Tarkin as a ruthlessly efficient officer.

Largely, it was only a few surviving Jedi (and, of course, the Emperor) who would know that Vader was formerly Anakin Skywalker. It isn't really known if Tarkin knew of Vader's origins.

It could be implied that Tarkin did know because of his line: "The Jedi are extinct; their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

Implication 1: Tarkin knew Vader was Anakin, and formerly a Jedi.

Implication 2: Tarkin used the term Jedi as a catchall phrase for Force-users much as one of us might use Coke as a catchall phrase for sodas. Hence "you are all that's left of their religion." He might not really differentiate between Jedi and Sith. He makes no mention of Sith in the film.

Implication 3: Same as above, except that Tarkin has no idea that Vader was formerly his old comrade, Skywalker. The "my friend" part being delivered loosely, but not entirely insincerely.

Just my takes on it.

Obi-Wan referred to Darth Vader as a young pupil of his who went on to help the Empire hunt down and destroy almost all the Jedi. According to that version of events, Darth Vader was at one point a Jedi. If that was the story commonly believed about his past, then it would have been right in line with that for Tarkin to say that Vader was all that was left of the Jedi religion, and the implication there was that Tarkin believed that all the other Jedi had been wiped out. News that Kenobi was still alive was just that: news to Tarkin. Belief that Vader was once a Jedi works whether he's known to have been Anakin or not.

 

[The Wormhole]

It isn't really known if Tarkin knew of Vader's origins.

In the novels, both the old EU and the new Disney licensed ones, Tarkin privately suspects Darth Vader to be Anakin Skywalker, but I'm not sure if he ever does find out for certain.

 

[ATimson]

Implication 2: Tarkin used the term Jedi as a catchall phrase for Force-users much as one of us might use Coke as a catchall phrase for sodas. Hence "you are all that's left of their religion." He might not really differentiate between Jedi and Sith. He makes no mention of Sith in the film.

No one makes mention of Sith on-screen until The Phantom Menace.

 

[martok2112]

It would make sense if Tarkin really did consider Vader a friend, assuming he knew Vader's true identity. In The Clone Wars, Anakin and Tarkin met on a mission and established a rapport pretty quickly.

That they did. (It was cool seeing Tarkin in that episode)

I submit that it's also possible that Vader was re-introduced to Tarkin during the Moff's/Grand Moff's time at Imperial Court, albeit without Tarkin realizing that Vader was formerly Anakin Skywalker. Tarkin could well have been one of the few, if only, non-Force users let in to Vader's "inner circle" because the former Anakin recognized and knew Tarkin as a ruthlessly efficient officer.

Largely, it was only a few surviving Jedi (and, of course, the Emperor) who would know that Vader was formerly Anakin Skywalker. It isn't really known if Tarkin knew of Vader's origins.

It could be implied that Tarkin did know because of his line: "The Jedi are extinct; their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."

Implication 1: Tarkin knew Vader was Anakin, and formerly a Jedi.

Implication 2: Tarkin used the term Jedi as a catchall phrase for Force-users much as one of us might use Coke as a catchall phrase for sodas. Hence "you are all that's left of their religion." He might not really differentiate between Jedi and Sith. He makes no mention of Sith in the film.

Implication 3: Same as above, except that Tarkin has no idea that Vader was formerly his old comrade, Skywalker. The "my friend" part being delivered loosely, but not entirely insincerely.

Just my takes on it.

Obi-Wan referred to Darth Vader as a young pupil of his who went on to help the Empire hunt down and destroy almost all the Jedi. According to that version of events, Darth Vader was at one point a Jedi. If that was the story commonly believed about his past, then it would have been right in line with that for Tarkin to say that Vader was all that was left of the Jedi religion, and the implication there was that Tarkin believed that all the other Jedi had been wiped out. News that Kenobi was still alive was just that: news to Tarkin. Belief that Vader was once a Jedi works whether he's known to have been Anakin or not.

That, I suspect, was just Obi-Wan protecting Luke from the horrible truth which as we come to learn is dependent greatly on a "certain point of view".

And you make very interesting points in what you're saying. I'm a bit wasted right now, so I will plead the fifth for now....and....now

 

[Reverend]

Obi-Wan referred to Darth Vader as a young pupil of his who went on to help the Empire hunt down and destroy almost all the Jedi. According to that version of events, Darth Vader was at one point a Jedi. If that was the story commonly believed about his past, then it would have been right in line with that for Tarkin to say that Vader was all that was left of the Jedi religion, and the implication there was that Tarkin believed that all the other Jedi had been wiped out. News that Kenobi was still alive was just that: news to Tarkin. Belief that Vader was once a Jedi works whether he's known to have been Anakin or not.

^This is all true. However, I would add the the way they had Anakin and Tarkin interacting in TCW was intended to retroactively suggest that these two had an instant rapport and that what we see in ANH is a direct continuation of that relationship.

 

[Skywalker]

Obi-Wan referred to Darth Vader as a young pupil of his who went on to help the Empire hunt down and destroy almost all the Jedi. According to that version of events, Darth Vader was at one point a Jedi. If that was the story commonly believed about his past, then it would have been right in line with that for Tarkin to say that Vader was all that was left of the Jedi religion, and the implication there was that Tarkin believed that all the other Jedi had been wiped out. News that Kenobi was still alive was just that: news to Tarkin. Belief that Vader was once a Jedi works whether he's known to have been Anakin or not.

^This is all true. However, I would add the the way they had Anakin and Tarkin interacting in TCW was intended to retroactively suggest that these two had an instant rapport and that what we see in ANH is a direct continuation of that relationship.

Beat you to it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Obi-Wan referred to Darth Vader as a young pupil of his who went on to help the Empire hunt down and destroy almost all the Jedi. According to that version of events, Darth Vader was at one point a Jedi. If that was the story commonly believed about his past, then it would have been right in line with that for Tarkin to say that Vader was all that was left of the Jedi religion, and the implication there was that Tarkin believed that all the other Jedi had been wiped out. News that Kenobi was still alive was just that: news to Tarkin. Belief that Vader was once a Jedi works whether he's known to have been Anakin or not.

^This is all true. However, I would add the the way they had Anakin and Tarkin interacting in TCW was intended to retroactively suggest that these two had an instant rapport and that what we see in ANH is a direct continuation of that relationship.

Beat you to it.

I agree totally agree with this, and it really makes sense that Tarkin's and Vader's relationship has some depth that goes back years. My only comment here is that I'd doubt that their relationship involves genuine friendship, primarily because I think Tarkin is sociopathic.

 

[Corran Horn]

"Obi-Wan Kenobi?

...

Surely he must be dead by now."

Why? Surely it couldn't be because he was so old--at least not with the prequels timeline.

Maybe because he thought the Empire had snuffed them all out?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"Obi-Wan Kenobi?

...

Surely he must be dead by now."

Why? Surely it couldn't be because he was so old--at least not with the prequels timeline.

Maybe because he thought the Empire had snuffed them all out?

Yeah, I don't know why Tarkin would believe, just because Kenobi had fallen off the map, that he was dead. Overconfidence? Assurances from the Emperor or other elements of the Empire that all the Jedi had been wiped out?

 

[Ithekro]

Probably because someone who was as active in the Clone Wars as Obi-wan Kenobi wouldn't be so quite these last 19 years. He would have done something by now? What else could he possibly be doing that would be more important to a Jedi Master than trying to save his precious Republic, or dodging stormtroopers? Someone like that must be dead if they've not been heard from since the end of the Clone Wars.

 

[Reverend]

^This is all true. However, I would add the the way they had Anakin and Tarkin interacting in TCW was intended to retroactively suggest that these two had an instant rapport and that what we see in ANH is a direct continuation of that relationship.

Beat you to it.

I agree totally agree with this, and it really makes sense that Tarkin's and Vader's relationship has some depth that goes back years. My only comment here is that I'd doubt that their relationship involves genuine friendship, primarily because I think Tarkin is sociopathic.

So is Vader when you really get down to it, maybe even a full blown psychopath. Certainly suffering from delusions, paranoia, PTSD and denial so deep as to edge towards dissociativness bordering on multiple personalities. I'm sure a psych student would have a lot of fun (and probably already has, somewhere) diagnosing Vader's personal hangups.

Regardless, with people like this "friend" is a relative concept. While Palpatine repeatedly calls Vader "friend" nobody is under any illusion that this is anything more that Sideous being a slimy little bastard. Whereas that relationship is defined by fear and power, with Tarkin & Vader I think there is at least some genuine mutual respect.

I suppose the defining thing is that both Vader and Tarkin believe in the Empire as the best thing to bring piece to a chaotic galaxy. On some level and in a twisted way, they both actually care about what's going on. As we saw in TCW, they have compatible political outlooks.

With Palpatine, my impression that to him, the Empire is is just a machine. An apparatus to place him at the centre of personal power and domination over all things. An end unto it self if you will. If he could achieve the same result easier with a different system (difficult to picture given the consuming nature of the Dark Side) then he would have gone for that instead.

"Obi-Wan Kenobi?

...

Surely he must be dead by now."

Why? Surely it couldn't be because he was so old--at least not with the prequels timeline.

Maybe because he thought the Empire had snuffed them all out?

Yeah, I don't know why Tarkin would believe, just because Kenobi had fallen off the map, that he was dead. Overconfidence? Assurances from the Emperor or other elements of the Empire that all the Jedi had been wiped out?

I imagine Tarkin didn't pay the Jedi much mind in the last 19 years, so the idea that one is still running around just isn't something he entertained.

Remember that it's not just their former clone soldiers that were out trying to kill them; most of the galaxy turned against them. Both those on the Republic side that resented the war and bought the official line about an attempted coup and those on the Separatist side who'd spent the last three or four years fighting a Jedi led army intent on (from their point of view) conquering their worlds and bringing them under the yolk of a corrupt Republic.
That just leaves the underworld--most of which have probably hated and feared Jedi for millennia-- and the relative handful of people who ever got to see a Jedi up close and know them for what they were really about, few of which would be in any shape to help for very long.

Given all that, one could hardly blame Tarkin for mentally writing them off over a decade ago.

 

[DimesDan]

I know this thread hasn't been active in a while, but as it is a Star Wars film and no doubt there will be more information soon and I reckon a teaser with Force Awakens, should it go in the Star Wars sub forum?

And instead of highlighting it in thread, should I have notified on it?

 

[Turtletrekker]

I thought that there was a thread missing...

Yeah, a thread with almost 500 posts about a movie in production should be in the SW forum.

 

[Set Harth]

bringing them under the yolk of a corrupt Republic.

While the Sith were egging them on.

 

[Reverend]

bringing them under the yolk of a corrupt Republic.

While the Sith were egging them on.

It's not like the Sith acted openly. It seems only the Confederacy leadership even knew Sidious existed. Also, Dooku kept up the pretence of being a former Jedi statesman in front of the Separatist public. Which could only re-enforce any resentment against the Jedi, one way or the other. Indeed, that may have been half the point.

So yeah, as far as the average person was concerned, it was all on the Jedi.

 

[DWF]

With Donnie Yen in the cast I hope he has a good Hong Kong styled action scene.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

bringing them under the yolk of a corrupt Republic.

While the Sith were egging them on.

It's not like the Sith acted openly. It seems only the Confederacy leadership even knew Sidious existed. Also, Dooku kept up the pretence of being a former Jedi statesman in front of the Separatist public. Which could only re-enforce any resentment against the Jedi, one way or the other. Indeed, that may have been half the point.

So yeah, as far as the average person was concerned, it was all on the Jedi.

It seems communications have become a bit... scrambled.

The word you were looking for was "under the yoke," not yolk.

 

[Reverend]

.....wooooosh

*looks up*

What was that?

 

[Ithekro]

Some tramp freighter. Nothing to worry about, citizen. Move along.