Roddenberry's lyrics

[ZapBrannigan]

So did Courage get kicked off Star Trek because he was angry (at least for a time) about GRs lyrics or did he quit?
Look maybe Courage forgave GR in the end. Maybe he's not the sort of person who carries a grudge unlike myself. Maybe he made more money off Star Trek in syndication than he ever thought he would so half of what he should get was 100 times what he thought he ever would get for a 3-Season TV show.

Courage was not kicked off Star Trek. After he recorded his score for "The Naked Time," he went over to 20th Century Fox to adapt and orchestrate the music for Doctor Doolittle. It was a huge-budget film and he thought it was the better career opportunity at the time. But he got no screen credit for his work there, and the film did nothing for him. He later said it was a mistake to leave the TV series.

There's no evidence he was ever furious at Roddenberry or left in a huff. He seems to have accepted the lyrics grab as a lump he had to take. At some point he admitted he was annoyed that the lyric was poorly written, from the standpoint of how awkward it would be to sing, with its syllables and emphasis in the wrong places. If GR had actually collaborated with him, he would have kept that from happening and possibly gotten a decent song out of it.

 

[plynch]

No feud. Read the interview I posted above.

Publishing copyright shenanigans was industry standard then. Save your tears for r&b and jazz composers ripped off by their labels who had the writer/artist sign with the label’s publishing when all they would have had to do was set up their own company for a few shekels and retain all their rights. It literally is $50 in this day and age. But the labels told them, “Sign here.”

Publishing rights when Dick James sold the Beatles’ catalog was a big factor in their breakup. (What lawyer to go with next, to try and not get screwed in the future which was not to be.) Len/Mac had no need at all for anyone else to own shares in their publishing, though with the sheet music/folios they sold, maybe a publisher was earning some salt then, administering and licensing those endeavors. But the old song-plugging role? Not too necessary when you’re the Beatles and you know your songs are gonna be recorded by yourself.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Sandy Courage was never kicked off Star Trek. He wasn't even asked politely to leave. The whole "Courage was angry" thing stems from the Solow/Justman book where they stated that, after the lyrics thing, Courage left and never scored for the series again. However, he did library cues aplenty for the second & third seasons and scored two episodes in the third season.

Claims like this are apparently why "Star Trek Fact Check" got started. This stood out as obviously wrong when I first read it. I can forgive faulty memories on the part of senior citizen producers 40 or 50 years after the fact, but jeez, pop in some episodes at least. Cushman didn't even check episodes he wrote about.

 

[plynch]

I get tired of people demonizing Roddenberry rather than accepting the fact he was kinda normal: shitty sometimes, a womanizer where his opportunities presented (as many, many men are, and are perhaps programmed by nature), a good rewriter and showrunner.

I’m not a whitewasher of his legacy, but this lyrics thing is just not that big a deal in the entertainment industry. It’s like being outraged that an athlete doped. Wrong, immoral, but surprise? Industry standard. Not to be admired, but far, far worse things in the world. It is CRAZY FOR courage to hook up with a show that got SO much play for his tune. Compare to, say, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.

Far better to have half of a lot than all of a nothin’.

 

[fireproof78]

I get tored of people demonizing Roddenberry rather than accepting the fact he was kinda normal: shitty sometimes, a womanizer where his opportunities presented (as many, many men are, and are perhaps programmed by nature), a good rewriter and showrunner.

I think the problem is that he gets treated as prophet and saint rather than, as you say, kind normal.

 

[plynch]

I just don’t hear that anymore. The pendulum sure has swung to what a devil he was. We want him to be better, to be more in align with Trekky ideals?

 

[fireproof78]

I just don’t hear that anymore. The pendulum sure has swung to what a devil he was. We want him to be better, to be more in align with Trekky ideals?

I think it depends on the context. Some still do because it was so ingrained. It's a bitter pill to swallow seeing heroes as flawed.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

I’m aware of a big copyright scam that ran from 1968 until it was discovered in 2014,

Could you elaborate on that, at least to the degree of providing some keywords for searching about that situation?

 

[jackoverfull]

Could you elaborate on that, at least to the degree of providing some keywords for searching about that situation?

not without revealing sensitive information, sorry. I can say that it involved a lot of people in two different countries, a lot of money and that while it was stopped when discovered they never caught the perpetrators or recovered the money.

 

[Trekker09]

The pendulum sure has swung to what a devil he was. We want him to be better, to be more in align with Trekky ideals?

Sorry, I never meant to “demonize” GR, it was his creative imagination that got the whole phenomenon off the ground…. lofty ideals and good intentions, along with his flaws.

Also appreciate your points about the royalties grab as rather common. From what I’ve read Courage protested that while the contract he unknowingly signed about the lyrics option was legal, it was unethical. No real feud developed and he did compose more for 5 episodes.

Mainly I was struck by how the lyrics don’t fit the music at all, and the phrasing is so awkward - "star-clustered reaches" “his journey ends never” etc

 

[plynch]

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to call anyone out in particular. This is a years-long drift, of ppl kind of hating on the man for fairly common foibles, esp in his time.

It’s a tough position, bc I really think one should conduct oneself well. But I think ppl go too far in castigating him. The whole womanizing thing is repugnant to me in general, but was such a thing of its time. I hope future generations might be merciful to us individuals now — who lived in a culture that ate meat and heated up the earth, or whatever things we do now that will be considered by everyone in the future to be repugnant and horrible.

 

[Commishsleer]

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to call anyone out in particular. This is a years-long drift, of ppl kind of hating on the man for fairly common foibles, esp in his time.

It’s a tough position, bc I really think one should conduct oneself well. But I think ppl go too far in castigating him. The whole womanizing thing is repugnant to me in general, but was such a thing of its time. I hope future generations might be merciful to us individuals now — who lived in a culture that ate meat and heated up the earth, or whatever things we do now that will be considered by everyone in the future to be repugnant and horrible.

I suppose the issue I have with it is that for all GR's money getting plans - selling the IDIC symbol, cutting up film - none of them took money away from anyone else. And I don't blame GR for trying to make a living so that he didn't end up living out of a car like Shatner but was Courage the one to get the money out of ? I think he was a struggling artist as well.
Its probably as most people think it was just part of sneaky contracting at the time and GR had a great lawyer (one who gave lawyers the reputation they have).
If you ignore GR's womanising and money-making schemes GR seemed to be popular and innovative amongst his peers. Although I haven't read all the biographies

 

[jackoverfull]

Shatner didn’t live out of a car, he only slept in a trailer while travelling doing theatre. He still had a regular home back in California.

Kelley, unfortunately, ended up living in a moldy trailer in the 80s.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Because it makes us feel better?

Why do we need to make ourselves feel better? It's Roddenberry, not us, who used a loophole to shit on someone.

 

[plynch]

Except that … we’ve cited numerous examples of people singing those lyrics. Including me. They suck. But even if just for novelty, they have been sung. I made a bunch of ppl laugh and dance with a Shatner stand up at a party by singing the song. Just playing it from the piano wouldn’t have done anything. GR “shat” no one. His lyrics have been used, and gotten the theme played and recorded more than it would have.

Not much more, granted. But ppl have enjoyed playing and singing it as a song.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The words Bill Murray sang to Star Wars are better, and AFAIK they didn't cost John Williams a dime.

 

[PCz911]

Shatner didn’t live out of a car, he only slept in a trailer while travelling doing theatre. He still had a regular home back in California.

Kelley, unfortunately, ended up living in a moldy trailer in the 80s.

Are you sure about Kelley? His Wikipedia page (ok, not the most reliable source) claimed he made a living off star trek conventions.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Are you sure about Kelley? His Wikipedia page (ok, not the most reliable source) claimed he made a living off star trek conventions.

Yeah, I never heard that Kelley went broke or anything like that.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Add me another for Kelley... I'm sure I recall reading he was a frugal family man who saved rather than spent?

 

[jackoverfull]

Are you sure about Kelley? His Wikipedia page (ok, not the most reliable source) claimed he made a living off star trek conventions.

i remember reading it in one of the bios…Eventually, if I remember correctly, nimoy convinced him to move in with him for a while, as the mold was not healthy.