Roddenberry Vault Question

[Methuselah Flint]

I'm not going to write about the brilliance of this set, as I wouldn't do it justice, but I thank all involved for their painstaking hard work!

Now...I'm wandering two things, which are kinda linked:

1) Have we now got *all* the deleted and alternate scenes and omitted dialogue they found?
2) One documentary mentions finding dailies. How many of these were found? I.e. Have we got a good number of clapperboards, outtakes and behind the scenes footage, as opposed to it all? Are there reels and reels of 'raw' episodes?

From what they say, it seems they found a lot more than what we were given.

That aside, I am *hugely* grateful and thankful!

 

[Push The Button]

Imagine how much great stuff was hacked up and sold off by Lincoln Enterprises. It makes me sad.

 

[Grant]

They have stated more than once, that they gave us all the deleted material and that most of the rest was of no interest.
Unless they lied -- it's one and done.
Part of me wishes they lied so we could get more and part of me would be angry and feel betrayed if they did lie.
They said they've been sorting this since 2007. They can't pretend they just found more.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

I wasn't suggesting they lied, it's just with so many cans I was hoping for more, though fully aware of what we were getting and enormously grateful! I guess the majority of cans were perhaps just already-known episode stuff, with before and after clapper board stuff?

 

[Methuselah Flint]

So I'm guessing the deleted material was integrated into the rest of the footage/workprints/dailies, and the team extracted the deleted portions for us?

 

[feek61]

There is about 100 hours of found material; WAY more the the sum total of the original series. Certainly there is more of interest in the hours of film then what was released. Of course I am interested in every single frame but I realize that it's not commercially viable to release all of it.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

That was my thinking too

 

[Green]

They can't have held back something like an actual deleted scene on the pretext of "Not interesting enough to include" -- when they are on the record saying how excited they were every time they found even a single deleted line of dialogue.

There is no way they held back deleted scenes that could comprise a second Vault. They had 9 years to catalog it -- they can't say they just found more. Probably the other deleted material that was in fact shot was cut up by Lincoln Enterprises and sold off over the years before they realized how important it could be to the home video market.

If what they have left are more trims and clapboard stuff -- that's not going to sell as a bonus extra.

 

[feek61]

Well, there is 100 hours of something on the found footage (this is not including any of the Lincoln Enterprise stuff)! I would be interested in multiple takes, different angles, ect.; it doesn't have to be a deleted scene to be interesting. Truth is every single frame has some historic value (and I want to see it all, lol).

 

[Green]

I know it's not the Lincoln Enterprises stuff. I was saying the other deleted scenes material was probably sold off and they saved what remained in the "vault".

Personally, I think the alternate angles/takes would have been included -- as you say ( and I agree) we would have wanted to see them.
Are they really going to say, "Gee, we didn't know anybody wanted to see alternate angles/takes."--??

They KNOW we would have wanted to see them. LOL. I guess my point is, that they are going to have to act pretty dumb to say they were surprised by the interest and now realize the fans would like to see more.
I think it's obvious we wanted to see all they had unless it was redundant material.

For example: If they had a workprint of "City.." and it was 52 minutes long and we have seen 49 minutes of it all these years -- then they gave us 3 minutes of deleted scenes. The other 49 we saw all along and they aren't going to include what we've been seeing for 50 years.
So that would be 52 minutes of vault material accounted for, but only 3 minutes worth including.
I think that is how the "100 hours" got shaved down to whatever they have given us.

35 episodes have some footage in the set. I think the material from the other 44 -- alternate takes/angles/deleted scenes/flubs etc. -- was probably sold off in the 1970s or lost or discarded.

Again I hope I'm wrong and they go, "Whoops, we had more cans in the basement!"

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Yes, your example using 'City' is my interpretation too. I suspect that's kinda the gist of it, and that the majority of what they found was recognisable footage and clapperboard pre and post take, with the gems now made available on the set.

Interesting though...does a workprint include sound effects and music, or is it simply raw studio footage?

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Also, I guess with the time constraints they had back then, they couldn't afford too many takes.

 

[King Bob!]

Also, I guess with the time constraints they had back then, they couldn't afford too many takes.

Time constraints? The average episode of TOS ran five to nine minutes longer than its modern counterparts.

 

[erastus25]

Time constraints? The average episode of TOS ran five to nine minutes longer than its modern counterparts.

I'm guessing he's referencing the constant production deadlines that TOS ran up against. Which, actually, the extra 9 minutes of run time would exacerbate that! haha

 

[Harvey]

I'm guessing he's referencing the constant production deadlines that TOS ran up against. Which, actually, the extra 9 minutes of run time would exacerbate that! haha

Despite shorter production schedules, it was not uncommon for them to shoot too much footage and have the early cuts of episodes run over on the original series. Even "The Alternative Factor" had scenes cut out of it!

 

[Green]

Probably Lazarus falling off a rock. That never gets old! Or more shots of the fight in the smoky room.
And why did they do that "spinning newspaper" effect? The paper never stopped spinning to show the headline, "Lazarus B gains upper hand in battle that will continue forever!"

 

[Michael]

I'm not going to write about the brilliance of this set, as I wouldn't do it justice, but I thank all involved for their painstaking hard work!

It's a cool set alright, but I wouldn't call it “brilliant”. I'm glad they found the material, but the way in which it is presented – edited out of order into six (!) separate features on three separate discs, with overlaying text and sometimes even audio from the interviews – is kinda confused and all over the place. I can definitely see where they are coming from with this approach, creating a narrative structure in which the found material is placed. But a big part of me wishes they would have treated the material more like historic artifacts and less like pieces of entertainment. I know, it's both, but I would have welcomed a more forensic approach in the presentation.

2) One documentary mentions finding dailies. How many of these were found?

It's my understanding that ALL of the found material from the vault is the dailies Roddenberry kept from the production. All the deleted scenes, outtakes and alternate angles had to be located within these dailies.

It seems to be a different case with the special effects elements they found. They look like the genuine stuff used to create the actual effects.

 

[Green]

Then there must have been footage that was lost or destroyed or sold off piecemeal -- as we thought was the case for all the footage
Since 44 episodes have no deleted scenes/dialogue or alternate angles or alternate takes -- it seems impossible that entire episodes didn't have a single shot worth including.

No matter how many cans were saved and stored, it must be the case even a greater amount than that weas lost.
I'm grateful that the found material was from the earlier, better (IMO) episodes.

 

[billsantos]

I suspect there will always continue to be footage and other effects out there somewhere. Case in point was the unaired version of the second pilot. For years, I had this as a poor quality VHS tape that I bought at a convention. I was shocked to see the wonderful version on the BD that I believe was obtained from a fan.

I was originally going to buy this vault set, but I have decided to hold off for now considering that I paid $10 less for the entire BD set on special from Target several years ago. I did mention the vault set to family members as a possible Christmas item, so may end up with it as gift.

 

[King Bob!]

I find it hard to believe there isn't more stuff out there, that Roddenberry and company know about. If this sells well, they have material on hand for a second release. I'd guarantee it.