Roddenberry involvement in DS9 and Voyager

[suarezguy]

By the way, it would have been interesting if Roddenberry had given his thoughts about "The Wounded" and "Ensign Ro" as the Cardassians and Bajorans ended up being big parts of Deep Space Nine.

 

[BillJ]

I think as long as he continued to collect large royalty checks, he would've been fine with the rest of the spin-offs and the Abrams films.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I imagine Roddenberry would have hated the same things about DS9 I used to hate when I was a teenager. It reverses TNG's message of optimism and human evolution.

 

[The Wormhole]

It reverses TNG's message of optimism and human evolution.

No, it doesn't. DS9 is just as optimistic as TNG. Even TNG made it clear wars are still fought in the enlightened 24th century, in fact one was going on off camera during the first two seasons.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

No, it doesn't. DS9 is just as optimistic as TNG. Even TNG made it clear wars are still fought in the enlightened 24th century, in fact one was going on off camera during the first two seasons.

Maybe 'reverses' is too strong a word, but it's very critical of the utopianism of TNG. The parting line of the series "The more things change, the more they stay the same" sums up DS9's thesis on Roddenberrianism. That even though the human race has evolved and overcome their social problems, they're still the same old human race. I didn't like that when I was a teenager, and I think Gene Roddenberry probably wouldn't have liked it.

 

[The Wormhole]

TNG showed humanity is still flawed, they just know how to deliver flowery speeches about enlightenment. You have the crew acting like elitist douches around Barclay, and Tasha Yar's home planet was anything but an example of enlightened humanity. And that's an example that was provided under Roddenberry's direct approval!

And DS9 isn't really "critical" of TNG's utopia, it's just saying that outside of the Federation others don't have it as swell. Which TNG basically already established.

 

[BillJ]

Maybe 'reverses' is too strong a word, but it's very critical of the utopianism of TNG. The parting line of the series "The more things change, the more they stay the same" sums up DS9's thesis on Roddenberrianism. That even though the human race has evolved and overcome their social problems, they're still the same old human race. I didn't like that when I was a teenager, and I think Gene Roddenberry probably wouldn't have liked it.

Deep Space Nine just lets us know that humanity will continue to struggle.

MCCOY: Well, that's the second time man's been thrown out of paradise.
KIRK: No, no, Bones. This time we walked out on our own. Maybe we weren't meant for paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through. Struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute. We must march to the sound of drums.

 

[BillJ]

I don't see DS9 as rejecting the ideas of Roddenberry. I just see them rejecting the idea that humanity had reached perfection and the job is done.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I see it as: All that supposed perfection is meaningless if you don't put it to the test. "It's easy to be a saint in paradise."

 

[The Wormhole]

I've said this before in other threads, but it's worth repeating. I'll never understand why DS9 gets criticized for allegedly not being optimistic or utopian and for putting the Federation at war, yet one of the most popular episodes of TNG is the one set in a dystopian alternate timeline in which the Federation is on the losing side of a war and Starfleet is intentionally depicted as a military and the Enterprise a warship.

 

[UnknownSample]

I usually like to support an opinion with reasons, but it's hard to in this case... this business about DS9 being opposed to what Trek is supposed to be about is just such nonsense, if you actually watch DS9, that I don't know where to begin to answer it. The regulars have exactly the Federation principles and priorities that they're supposed to have.

 

[BillJ]

I've said this before in other threads, but it's worth repeating. I'll never understand why DS9 gets criticized for allegedly not being optimistic or utopian and for putting the Federation at war...

I don't criticize it for the war, but for that war being as long and strung out as it was. Even skipping the Bajor/Kira episodes, my interest in DS9 has bogged down again in season six.

 

[m.lp.ql.m]

Wasn't Gene supposedly trying to get a Luxwanna Troi spin-off going?

 

[Greg Cox]

I see it as: All that supposed perfection is meaningless if you don't put it to the test. "It's easy to be a saint in paradise."

Bingo. I always saw that line as DS9's (belated) mission statement.