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Robert Holmes: yes/no/pass

Shatnertage

Shatnertage

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Rear Admiral
Let me start by saying that I've got absolutely no axe to grind either way on this one. I'm a fan of Doctor Who, and quite fond of many Robert Holmes stories. His years as script editor are probably my favorite. But, since we're taking a look at RTD's output as a writer, I figure that it would be interesting to do the same for good old Bob.

There are three options here:

YES: I would watch this story again, or show it to someone as an example of good Doctor Who with no embarrassment or explaining

NO: I would not do the above

PASS: I haven't seen this episode, or saw it so long ago that I don't remember enough to intelligently discuss it
(note: I cribbed this list from Tardis.wikia,so if you want to quibble about whether or not he should be credited with Morbius, go ahead)

The Krotons
The Space Pirates
Spearhead from Space
Terror of the Autons
Carnival of Monsters
The Time Warrior
The Ark in Space - based on a script by John Lucarotti
Pyramids of Mars - credited as Stephen Harris
The Brain of Morbius - credited as Robin Bland, based on a script by Terrance Dicks
The Deadly Assassin
The Talons of Weng-Chiang
The Sun Makers
The Ribos Operation
The Power of Kroll
The Caves of Androzani
The Two Doctors
The Mysterious Planet
The Ultimate Foe - first episode only

Have at it!
 
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Here's my vote:

The Krotons PASS
The Space Pirates PASS
Spearhead from Space YES
Terror of the Autons PASS
Carnival of Monsters YES
The Time Warrior YES
The Ark in Space - based on a script by John Lucarotti YES
Pyramids of Mars - credited as Stephen Harris YES
The Brain of Morbius - credited as Robin Bland, based on a script by Terrance Dicks YES
The Deadly Assassin YES
The Talons of Weng-Chiang YES
The Sun Makers PASS
The Ribos Operation YES
The Power of Kroll YES
The Caves of Androzani YES
The Two Doctors NO
The Mysterious Planet NO
The Ultimate Foe - first episode only NO
 
The Krotons - No
The Space Pirates - No
Spearhead from Space- Yes
Terror of the Autons - Yes
Carnival of Monsters - Yes
The Time Warrior - Yes
The Ark in Space - Yes
Pyramids of Mars- Yes
The Brain of Morbius - Yes
The Deadly Assassin - Yes (Along with the following entry, part of my favorite season of all Doctor Who)
The Talons of Weng-Chiang - Yes (My favorite story of all Doctor Who)
The Sun Makers - Yes
The Ribos Operation - Yes
The Power of Kroll - No
The Caves of Androzani - Yes (Not only is The Fifth Doctor's best story, it's also the best regeneration story and one of the best stories period)
The Two Doctors - Yes
The Mysterious Planet - No
The Ultimate Foe - No

Robert Holmes is easily my favorite Doctor Who writer, rivaled only by Steven Moffat (who falls short simply because he doesn't have as many classics under his belt...yet). Holmes is also a great example of not starting off well. If we wrote him off after just The Krotons and The Space Pirates, unarguably two terrible stories, we wouldn't have such classics Pyramids of Mars, The Brains of Morbius, The Deadly Assassin, The Talons of Weng-Chiang, and The Caves of Androzani. His genius isn't limited to just Doctor Who. I'm in the process of watching Blake's 7 for the first timer and he has some gems over there, too (particularly "Gambit").
 
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The Krotons - No
The Space Pirates - No
Spearhead from Space - Yes
Terror of the Autons - Yes
Carnival of Monsters - No
The Time Warrior - Yes
The Ark in Space - YES!!
Pyramids of Mars - Yes
The Brain of Morbius - YES!
The Deadly Assassin - YES!!!
The Talons of Weng-Chiang - "I'll have what she's having"
The Sun Makers - Yes
The Ribos Operation - Yes
The Power of Kroll - Yes
The Caves of Androzani - Yes
The Two Doctors - No
The Mysterious Planet - No
The Ultimate Foe - first episode only - No

Holmes did some amazing work, and was also capable of a few stinkers. I think he had a real feel for the macabre & a wicked sense of humour, and this was enhanced under Philip Hinchcliffe's time as producer.
 
The Krotons - Yes
The Space Pirates - No
Spearhead from Space - YES!!
Terror of the Autons - Yes
Carnival of Monsters - No
The Time Warrior - Yes
The Ark in Space - YES!!
Pyramids of Mars - Yes
The Brain of Morbius - Yes
The Deadly Assassin - Yes
The Talons of Weng-Chiang - YES!!
The Sun Makers - No
The Ribos Operation - YES!!
The Power of Kroll - No
The Caves of Androzani - YES!!
The Two Doctors - No
The Mysterious Planet - No
The Ultimate Foe - No
 
The Krotons- Pass
The Space Pirates- Pass
Spearhead from Space- Pass
Terror of the Autons- Pass
Carnival of Monsters- Pass
The Time Warrior- No
The Ark in Space - based on a script by John Lucarotti- Pass
Pyramids of Mars - credited as Stephen Harris- No
The Brain of Morbius - credited as Robin Bland, based on a script by Terrance Dicks- Pass
The Deadly Assassin- Yes
The Talons of Weng-Chiang- Yes x 1000
The Sun Makers- Yes
The Ribos Operation- Yes
The Power of Kroll- Yes
The Caves of Androzani- Yes
The Two Doctors- Pass
The Mysterious Planet- Yes
The Ultimate Foe - first episode only- Yes

Robert Holmes was great. Probably the best Who writer of the old series.
 
The Krotons Yes.
The Space Pirates Yes.
Spearhead from Space YES
Terror of the Autons Yes.
Carnival of Monsters YES
The Time Warrior YES
The Ark in Space - YES
Pyramids of Mars - YES
The Brain of Morbius -YES
The Deadly Assassin YES
The Talons of Weng-Chiang YES
The Sun Makers Yes.
The Ribos Operation YES
The Power of Kroll YES
The Caves of Androzani YES
The Two Doctors (Its got P Troughton in it so thats a automatic YES!!)
The Mysterious Planet Yes.
The Ultimate Foe - Yes.
 
I need to watch more Who, too many passes here :) Still...here goes...

The Krotons PASS
The Space Pirates PASS
Spearhead from Space PASS
Terror of the Autons PASS
Carnival of Monsters YES
The Time Warrior a GREAT BIG YES
The Ark in Space - PASS
Pyramids of Mars - credited as Stephen Harris YES
The Brain of Morbius - NO
The Deadly Assassin YES
The Talons of Weng-Chiang YES
The Sun Makers PASS
The Ribos Operation PASS
The Power of Kroll PASS
The Caves of Androzani YES
The Two Doctors NO
The Mysterious Planet NO
The Ultimate Foe - first episode only NO

Oh yeah, and he pretty much gets a YES for every episode of Blakes 7 he wrote...
 
The Krotons - YES, ish
The Space Pirates - NO
Spearhead from Space - YES
Terror of the Autons - YES,ish
Carnival of Monsters - YES
The Time Warrior - YESish
The Ark in Space - based on a script by John Lucarotti - YES
Pyramids of Mars - credited as Stephen Harris - YES
The Brain of Morbius - credited as Robin Bland, based on a script by Terrance Dicks - YES
The Deadly Assassin - YES
The Talons of Weng-Chiang - YES (best story ever)
The Sun Makers - YES
The Ribos Operation - YES
The Power of Kroll - NO
The Caves of Androzani - YES
The Two Doctors - NO
The Mysterious Planet - YES,ish
The Ultimate Foe - first episode only - NO
 
The Krotons - NO
The Space Pirates - YES (such a shame only the shit episode survived - this serial improves considerably in the second half and needs more love)
Spearhead from Space - YES!!!
Terror of the Autons - YES
Carnival of Monsters - YES
The Time Warrior - NO
The Ark in Space - based on a script by John Lucarotti - YES!!!
Pyramids of Mars - credited as Stephen Harris - YES
The Brain of Morbius - credited as Robin Bland, based on a script by Terrance Dicks - YES
The Deadly Assassin - YES
The Talons of Weng-Chiang - YES
The Sun Makers - NO
The Ribos Operation - YES
The Power of Kroll - NO
The Caves of Androzani - YES
The Two Doctors - NO
The Mysterious Planet - NO
The Ultimate Foe - first episode only - NO
 
The Krotons - No
The Space Pirates - No
Spearhead from Space - Yes
Terror of the Autons - Yes
Carnival of Monsters - Yes
The Time Warrior - Yes
The Ark in Space - based on a script by John Lucarotti - Yes
Pyramids of Mars - credited as Stephen Harris - Yes
The Brain of Morbius - credited as Robin Bland, based on a script by Terrance Dicks - Yes
The Deadly Assassin - No
The Talons of Weng-Chiang - YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Sun Makers - Yes
The Ribos Operation - Yes
The Power of Kroll - No
The Caves of Androzani - Yes
The Two Doctors - Yes - because I like the bits Holmes wants to talk about, less so with the stuff he was stuck with (Spain & Sontarans)
The Mysterious Planet - No
The Ultimate Foe - first episode only - No
 
The Krotons - no
The Space Pirates - pass
Spearhead from Space - yes
Terror of the Autons - no
Carnival of Monsters - yes
The Time Warrior - yes
The Ark in Space - no
Pyramids of Mars - hell yes!
The Brain of Morbius - pass
The Deadly Assassin - no
The Talons of Weng-Chiang - yes
The Sun Makers - yes
The Ribos Operation - yes
The Power of Kroll - no
The Caves of Androzani - yes
The Two Doctors - no
The Mysterious Planet - yes
The Ultimate Foe - yes

More Goose said:
Oh yeah, and he pretty much gets a YES for every episode of Blakes 7 he wrote...
Click to expand...

He wrote "Orbit," right?

"Vila weighs seventy-three kilos, Avon." :borg:

Blake's 7 could be rubbish, but when it was good, it was fantastic!
 
Oh, and I think in his tendency for comedy supporting characters, and his blending of the mundane and the fantastic, Holmes is probably the most RTD-esque writer of the original series. The Time Warrior wouldn't be out of place as a Tennant historical, and The Sun Makers is a very RTD future.
 
James T. Chanukah said:
Let me start by saying that I've got absolutely no axe to grind either way on this one. I'm a fan of Doctor Who, and quite fond of many Robert Holmes stories. His years as script editor are probably my favorite. But, since we're taking a look at RTD's output as a writer, I figure that it would be interesting to do the same for good old Bob.

There are three options here:

YES: I would watch this story again, or show it to someone as an example of good Doctor Who with no embarrassment or explaining

NO: I would not do the above

PASS: I haven't seen this episode, or saw it so long ago that I don't remember enough to intelligently discuss it
(note: I cribbed this list from Tardis.wikia,so if you want to quibble about whether or not he should be credited with Morbius, go ahead)

The Krotons - YES (But mainly due to lack of Troughtons and nostalgia from 1981)
The Space Pirates - NO
Spearhead from Space - YES
Terror of the Autons - PASS
Carnival of Monsters - YES
The Time Warrior - YES
The Ark in Space - YES
Pyramids of Mars - DOUBLE YES
The Brain of Morbius - NO (Doesn't hold up well)
The Deadly Assassin - YES
The Talons of Weng-Chiang - YES
The Sun Makers - YES
The Ribos Operation - YES
The Power of Kroll - PASS
The Caves of Androzani - Double YES
The Two Doctors - PASS
The Mysterious Planet - PASS
The Ultimate Foe - PASS

Have at it!
Click to expand...

Revenge of the Cybermen should probably be on the list too: Gerry Davis's original script is available to fans, and it's clear that, like Morbius and Pyramids, Homes wrote as much or more of the transmitted version as the original writer.
 
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The Krotons - No. It's one of the few DW's I can't stand.
The Space Pirates - Pass as it's a deleted story.
Spearhead from Space - Yes
Terror of the Autons - Yes
Carnival of Monsters - Yes
The Time Warrior - Yes
The Ark in Space - based on a script by John Lucarotti - Definitely Yes
Pyramids of Mars - credited as Stephen Harris - Definitely Yes
The Brain of Morbius - credited as Robin Bland, based on a script by Terrance Dicks - No; I've never really cared for it
The Deadly Assassin - Yes
The Talons of Weng-Chiang - Both. Yes, but only if the viewer is accustomed to slow-paced multi-part stories. If it's someone who only likes the fast-paced modern-era style, then No.
The Sun Makers - No
The Ribos Operation - Yes
The Power of Kroll - No. I'm forgiving of the special effects DW had to make do with back in the day, but even I draw the line.
The Caves of Androzani - Oh god, yes
The Two Doctors - No
The Mysterious Planet - No, since it's only part of a 14-chapter story. I'd have to show the whole thing.
The Ultimate Foe - first episode only - No, for same reason as above, plus the fact Holmes never completed this part and it was picked up by third parties, which rarely works out well. The wussing out regarding Peri in the finale pretty much spoiled the entire Trial story arc for me. I am trusting that Holmes was dead and buried long before that idea was sparked.

Alex
 
What's up with The Krotons hate? I've never understood the bad rap that one got... :shrug:
 
Never seen it, so can't comment. Title does kind of sound like "The Croutons," though. It's not about aliens invading an isolated outpost through Caesar salad, is it?
 
James T. Chanukah said:
Never seen it, so can't comment. Title does kind of sound like "The Croutons," though. It's not about aliens invading an isolated outpost through Caesar salad, is it?
Click to expand...

:lol: "That's bang out of order! You know all of his villains were made out of tin foil!" :techman:
 
It's been years since I saw it but I remember not liking it.

Maybe I'll change my mind when it comes out on DVD. I have about other 60's stories.
 
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