River song is still alive~?

[starsuperion]

Okay, watching the Name of the Doctor.. Just as the riddle "The doctor has a secret he will take to the grave, and it is discovered" the riddle of River Song, that she was mentally linked to Clara, if Clara was dead, then how River Still be there in the Doctor's mind? "spoilers"

I believe River wasn't just referring to Clara, but also to herself.

So okay, she couldn't regenerate, according to the Doctor because she gave up her remaining to save his life..

But, is that true? What about the Meta crisis..the doctor's hand just needed Artron energy..River in her Form after saving the Doctor's life at the beginning of hers, has been in the Tardis.. after that.. and Artron energy flows in the Tardis..

The Universe was also rebooted, after River gave up her regenerations..could it be that So too was River Song's regeneration cycles? Could the 10th Doctor have saw a dead body, but missed her regenerating later? as with his daughter Jenny, who has been noticeably absent.. So maybe she has both a digital echo mind, and a physical body?

What of the papel church lady..could she be a regenerated form of River?

River song is part time lord..she exists as a consciousness echo in the largest Library in the entire universe, all that knowledge, access to all those books, held in the digital database..what does she know? what could she build to bring herself back? Who knows...WHO Nose.. LOL

 

[Gov Kodos]

As time travel exists in the Whoniverse, no one really ever dies, timelines just don't cross anymore.

 

[Lonemagpie]

The universe was rebooted before she gave up her regenerations (assuming that wasn't just her, the Doctor and Moffat all lying about her doing so at all) - but after she was saved to the Library mainframe, so something may have changed about that.

 

[PorthosShadow]

River Song is one that should never be underestimated. If for no other reason than I really like Alex Kingston and Peter Capaldi will be really fun to watch playing off each other.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Oh please no. I like Alex Kingston, but River Song wore out her welcome for me sometime back. Let her stay dead and her story be complete.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

She might come back, but I do think she's still dead.

 

[Skellington]

We apparently still haven't seen how she learns his name (unless his name actually translates as "Look Into My Eyes"), so maybe we'll see that. It could be that she brings back the Time Lords by uttering it. Though honestly I think Moffat just hasn't tied everything together as neatly as he intended to.

I think her death in the Library is still notionally intact, though it's just struck me that the Doctor might return the favour she did him in Let's Kill Hitler. Or, if she's the one who brings back the Time Lords, they might reward her with a resurrection.

But I think it's clear that she's not Tasha Lem.

 

[The Wormhole]

But I think it's clear that she's not Tasha Lem.

Although, isn't it rumoured that Tasha Lem was a replacement for River since Alex Kingston was unavailable for Time of the Doctor?

 

[chelly]

i hope they bring back River during Capaldi's run to at least to do the "changed hair and new suit" scene. But if they don't it will be ok. I loved the whole River Song storyline.

 

[Starkers]

But I think it's clear that she's not Tasha Lem.

Although, isn't it rumoured that Tasha Lem was a replacement for River since Alex Kingston was unavailable for Time of the Doctor?

In some ways that makes sense, their flirty relationship, the fact she can fly the Tardis and the fact she's more than just an average human given how much willpowr she has.

But...

Would River really be Mother Superious of a church that stole her chilldhood? Plus adding into that is the fact that it seems its the first time Tasha has seen Eleven's face, despite the fact he'd been rocking it for centuries?

I could see River fulfilling some of the functions of Tasha, but not all. Would be interesting to know the original story is alex was slated to be in it.

I do think that we've probably seen the last of River now, maybe one more appearance but that's it. Given how busy she usually is I can see it being increasingly difficult to even work her into the production schedule, even before you factor in her comments to the Doctor in Name of the Doctor which seemed to suggest he'd only see her one more time (and I wonder if that was supposed to be in Time?) The, one last time trope would fit into the whole Time Traveller's Wife storyline...

 

[RoJoHen]

Would River really be Mother Superious of a church that stole her chilldhood?

That would depend entirely on her reasons for taking said role. I kind of like the idea of Dead Library River "evolving" into the Papel Mainframe.

Plus adding into that is the fact that it seems its the first time Tasha has seen Eleven's face, despite the fact he'd been rocking it for centuries?

Well, that could have been a re-written line after it was decided that she wasn't actually River. Who knows?

 

[Lonemagpie]

But I think it's clear that she's not Tasha Lem.

Although, isn't it rumoured that Tasha Lem was a replacement for River since Alex Kingston was unavailable for Time of the Doctor?

I don't know if that's "rumoured" but I speculated on it at the time.

 

[Starkers]

Would River really be Mother Superious of a church that stole her chilldhood?

That would depend entirely on her reasons for taking said role. I kind of like the idea of Dead Library River "evolving" into the Papel Mainframe.

Plus adding into that is the fact that it seems its the first time Tasha has seen Eleven's face, despite the fact he'd been rocking it for centuries?

Well, that could have been a re-written line after it was decided that she wasn't actually River. Who knows?

That’s actually an interesting thought re the papal mainframe, and it does feel like a very Moffat thing to do, and it would make River's entire existence one giant temporal causality loop.

Eleven gives her the screwdriver so her consciousness can be saved. Ten then puts her consciousness into the library computer which evolves over time to become the Papal Mainframe, an offshoot of which travels back along the timeline to recruit River with the intention of killing the Doctor, only she keeps saving the Doctor and ends up sacrificing herself for him…only her consciousness has been saved to the screwdriver and it all begins again.

Not sure where Tasha would fit into this but it would make the Jack is Boe reveal pale by comparison.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Would River really be Mother Superious of a church that stole her chilldhood?

That would depend entirely on her reasons for taking said role. I kind of like the idea of Dead Library River "evolving" into the Papel Mainframe.

Plus adding into that is the fact that it seems its the first time Tasha has seen Eleven's face, despite the fact he'd been rocking it for centuries?

Well, that could have been a re-written line after it was decided that she wasn't actually River. Who knows?

That’s actually an interesting thought re the papal mainframe, and it does feel like a very Moffat thing to do, and it would make River's entire existence one giant temporal causality loop.

Eleven gives her the screwdriver so her consciousness can be saved. Ten then puts her consciousness into the library computer which evolves over time to become the Papal Mainframe, an offshoot of which travels back along the timeline to recruit River with the intention of killing the Doctor, only she keeps saving the Doctor and ends up sacrificing herself for him…only her consciousness has been saved to the screwdriver and it all begins again.

Not sure where Tasha would fit into this but it would make the Jack is Boe reveal pale by comparison.

This just reminds me how much less funny the explanation for the potted petunia in Hitch Hiker's Galaxy was than the original unexplained 'Oh no, not again.'

 

[intrinsical]

The Master was cremated and yet he still managed to restore himself. River's at least half-Timelord so who knows what she is capable of?

 

[The Wormhole]

Would River really be Mother Superious of a church that stole her chilldhood?

As suggested above, we don't know how much of this story was changed after Moffat learned Kingston was unavailable. Perhaps in the original version, Madame Kovarian represented the official Church and River and her followers were the renegade faction? Actually, that would explain how Colonel Manton still took orders from Tasha Lem at Demon's Run. No, she wasn't mentioned by name, but Manton did mention he had "divine consent from the Papal Mainframe herself" to remove the hoods of the Headless Monks. Presumably he's referring to Lem.

 

[chelly]

Why should we take Colonal Manton's word for it? Or Well I wouldn't put it past Kavorian to lie and say she was giving orders via the mainframe. She could have said she got the orders from them and gave Manton orders to remove the hoods.

 

[starsuperion]

I don't know, I kinda like the idea of another time lord out there, like river song, working behind the scenes, and being a timelord lady, if the show finally did die, they could always do a doctor who where she takes over, and thus we have the perfect transition to a female role, keeping the male fans (like me) happy with the doctor remaining male in all his forms. she could take up the name "doctor" to honor her dead late husband sometime in the future. which would have the added benefit of keeping the show name and recognition and title for fans to come on board with.. not to mention the change up in companions to males.. I know a timelord can be male of female if so chosen, but somehow I just see the doctor as not one who could do that being so male and masculine in his various roles..to me it would seem the perfect future solution to the show if it ever ran into a lull like in the late 90's. in that way, the character of River song is a gold mine..and provides the relevant history to make the connection to older fans.

here is another idea.. the papel mainframe is essentially a computer mind, or repository, and River is currently a computer echo consciousness in the library planet.. would it be so hard to consider her mind being transferred in the papel mainframe? not to mention the Order has her DNA structure on file, which I am sure could afford her consciousness the ability to access clone technology and with that road map reconstruct herself a body????

 

[The Wormhole]

Why should we take Colonal Manton's word for it? Or Well I wouldn't put it past Kavorian to lie and say she was giving orders via the mainframe. She could have said she got the orders from them and gave Manton orders to remove the hoods.

Presumably the Headless Monks wouldn't have agreed to let Manton to remove their hoods (something they are permitted to kill people over) unless there is some verifiable proof the Papal Mainframe allowed him to.

 

[starsuperion]

But I think it's clear that she's not Tasha Lem.

Although, isn't it rumoured that Tasha Lem was a replacement for River since Alex Kingston was unavailable for Time of the Doctor?

I don't know if that's "rumoured" but I speculated on it at the time.

I must say, it's good to see you again Lonemagpie!