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River and Doctors beyond Smith?

Whofan

Fleet Captain
Although she apparentally has a record of all the Doctors, only the tenth (after the Library) and eleventh seem aware of her. However that still leaves possible future Doctors she might interact with. Should Smith leave and Moffat remain at some point, I wonder if the River/Doctor 'story' will continue with Doctors twelve and beyond?


Gotta admit I'm a bit confused by how she recognizes the Tenth Doctor, I suppose she knows the 'face' but not the 'order' of the Doctors, and thought that tennant was possibly a future regeneration after Smith. However that might be just a quirk of the writing since at that point I believe Tennant had not decided to leave yet, and would have done season 5 with the Angels/River story (which would've been a bit different of course).
 
She mentions having a spotters guide in Time of Angels, which is long before Silence in the Library for her - I guess that means that (by that point) she's researched the Doctor's various faces, but doesn't know (as he's never told her) that she's never going to meet One through Nine.
Though she may not have it yet (as of Impossible Astronaut), as this River is the earliest one the Doctor's met to date.
 
She mentions having a spotters guide in Time of Angels, which is long before Silence in the Library for her - I guess that means that (by that point) she's researched the Doctor's various faces, but doesn't know (as he's never told her) that she's never going to meet One through Nine.
Possibility one. The Doctor has told her that she can never, ever interact with the pre-Tennant Doctors.

Possibility two. Post-"The Big Bang," the pre-Smith Doctors don't exist in River's universe, and the encounter with Tennant was an artifact from one timeline accidentally crossing over into another.

Though she may not have it yet (as of Impossible Astronaut), as this River is the earliest one the Doctor's met to date.
Not necessarily. She doesn't know Rory in "The Big Bang" (of course, he'd been erased from history) as anything other than one of the Roman Autons, while she appears familiar with both Amy and Rory at the start of "The Impossible Astronaut."

I think she's post "The Big Bang," possibly even post "Flesh and Stone."
 
She mentions having a spotters guide in Time of Angels, which is long before Silence in the Library for her - I guess that means that (by that point) she's researched the Doctor's various faces, but doesn't know (as he's never told her) that she's never going to meet One through Nine.
Possibility one. The Doctor has told her that she can never, ever interact with the pre-Tennant Doctors.

Possibility two. Post-"The Big Bang," the pre-Smith Doctors don't exist in River's universe, and the encounter with Tennant was an artifact from one timeline accidentally crossing over into another.

Though she may not have it yet (as of Impossible Astronaut), as this River is the earliest one the Doctor's met to date.
Not necessarily. She doesn't know Rory in "The Big Bang" (of course, he'd been erased from history) as anything other than one of the Roman Autons, while she appears familiar with both Amy and Rory at the start of "The Impossible Astronaut."

I think she's post "The Big Bang," possibly even post "Flesh and Stone."

That only works if Impossible Astronaut isn't what River's referring to at the end of Big Bang, and ther's been another meet between BB and IA (on the 908 Doctor's timeline, that is).
 
What fascinates me most about River is that she takes notice of the Doctor's companions like they're meant to be there (new or other wise). Like with Donna, the same thing happened with Amy, and now Rory. It's just natural for her to know these people. I suppose because she already does.
 
That only works if Impossible Astronaut isn't what River's referring to at the end of Big Bang, and ther's been another meet between BB and IA (on the 908 Doctor's timeline, that is).

You mean what she refers to as when "everything changes"? My understanding is that is a referance to the mid-season cliffhanger.

I was under the impression that River in The Impossible Astronaut was somewhere far along in her relationship with the Doctor. They both seemed relatively far in their diaries. Jim the Fish.
 
What fascinates me most about River is that she takes notice of the Doctor's companions like they're meant to be there (new or other wise). Like with Donna, the same thing happened with Amy, and now Rory. It's just natural for her to know these people. I suppose because she already does.
We've now seen River meet three of the Doctor's companions --

1) Donna -- A near-reverence at meeting her, which suggests that when and what the Doctor told River of Donna it was a Very Big Thing

2) Amy -- Total nonchalance

3) Rory -- Basically, "Eh, whatever" (Though, according to Moffat, "The Big Bang" is not the first time River and Rory met)

I'd like to see a River/companion meeting that fell somewhere in between.
 
Gotta admit I'm a bit confused by how she recognizes the Tenth Doctor, I suppose she knows the 'face' but not the 'order' of the Doctors, and thought that tennant was possibly a future regeneration after Smith. However that might be just a quirk of the writing since at that point I believe Tennant had not decided to leave yet, and would have done season 5 with the Angels/River story (which would've been a bit different of course).

Every indication in "Silence in the Library" is that River Song had met Ten before. She specifically recognizes that he's in the regeneration he was in when he'd only just met her ("Going by your face, I'd say it's early days for you, yes? So, crash of the Byzantium, have we done that yet?"), and she certainly wasn't referring to his befuddled expression, considering how she refused to even consider that it meant that he hadn't yet met her at all. She has what appears to an incarnation-specific nickname for him (Pretty Boy). She's also quite certain that he won't regenerate if he tries channeling the computer at the end, though that could play either as her having met Ten again later on in his timeline, or her knowledge of Time Lord stuff allowing her to know that it'd be one of those things that just kills them right away.

The way I see it, we can either close our eyes and put our fingers in our ears and retcon that all away, coming up with all sorts of convoluted explanations for how River would initially believe that the Tenth Doctor comes between the Eleventh Doctor and the Eleventh Doctor, or we can take the far more interesting, yet also simpler, solution proposed by the episodes: Time can be rewritten.

It's a recurring phrase in all of the River Song episodes. We've actually begun seeing it happen with the cracks and most explicitly in "A Christmas Carol," where we actually see someone's life story reshape itself multiple times before our eyes. It may even be deliberate, tying into the Tenth Doctor's explosive regeneration and the manipulations of the Silence upon the TARDIS, among other things. Simply enough, in "Silence in the Library," River Song had met the Tenth Doctor at least twice before, at the Byzantium and at Asgard, but something happened after that in his timeline, possibly the Time Lord Victorious psychotic episode, that hadn't been going to happen before, so the Doctor regenerated earlier than he had in the version of history that River lived through. Some events, like the Byzantium, were compensated around and reshaped to incorporate the new Doctor, while others, like the picnic at Asgard, evaporated altogether (and maybe others, like the Pandorica, came into being where they hadn't been there before).

That's my take, anyway. On a related note, I was very happy to see two-hundred-years hence Doctor had apparently begun keeping his matching diary during the hiatus, and I hope Doctor Prime starts up the habit. It ties in with one of my pet peeves about last season, that River and the Doctor weren't meeting "out of order" so much as they were meeting "backwards." Now, backwards is fine as a device, but it does make the diary kind of futile and depressing, and it'll only get more frustrating if River never develops any backstory, seen or unseen, with our Doctor. I'm really hoping that was just a side-effect of there being only three River Song stories so far, and the ordering of the episodes from her perspective will get a bit less straightforward. It would frickin' thrill me if the current episode ended up featuring a post-Byzantium (or even just post-Pandorica) River.
 
Honestly I just assumed River's knowledge of pre-Smith Doctors comes from her hanging around a multi-Doctor team up. She could be there in The Eleven Doctors, or The Twelve Doctors, or The Fifteen Doctors, or The Five Hundred and Seven Doctors, or The Infinity Doctors.
 
Remember: It's possible River has met The Meta-Crisis 10th Doctor in some future adventure (50th anniversary special anyone? That seems to me the obvious time to bring Tennant back). Only she may not be aware at that time that he's not the real Doctor, but a "duplicate". So by the time she gets to the Library she's already met him, but not "him".

I know some people hate Rose but I'd love for River to meet her. It's also sad that River will never get to meet Sarah Jane (at least on screen).
 
It ties in with one of my pet peeves about last season, that River and the Doctor weren't meeting "out of order" so much as they were meeting "backwards." Now, backwards is fine as a device, but it does make the diary kind of futile and depressing, and it'll only get more frustrating if River never develops any backstory, seen or unseen, with our Doctor.
So far I haven't been impressed with the River story due to issues like this. The older doctor apparently went through a few earlier adventures with her that they both remembered, but out of order is far more interesting than backwards, even if it ultimately trends that way.
 
The other problem with backwards is having to make Alex Kingston get younger every time. They can only do that for so long. ;)
 
Every indication in "Silence in the Library" is that River Song had met Ten before. She specifically recognizes that he's in the regeneration he was in when he'd only just met her ("Going by your face, I'd say it's early days for you, yes? So, crash of the Byzantium, have we done that yet?"), and she certainly wasn't referring to his befuddled expression, considering how she refused to even consider that it meant that he hadn't yet met her at all.

I remember either reading or seeing an interview with Moffat where he said when he'd written those Library episodes David Tennant had not yet announced he was leaving the show. So when those lines were written he was assuming Tennant would be in the next episode with River. Also, he stated in the Confidential for Time of Angels that this was the first time since the Library that the Doctor was meeting River again (and why he was dead set on running away from her). So based on those statements I think she only encountered Ten once.


That's my take, anyway. On a related note, I was very happy to see two-hundred-years hence Doctor had apparently begun keeping his matching diary during the hiatus, and I hope Doctor Prime starts up the habit. It ties in with one of my pet peeves about last season, that River and the Doctor weren't meeting "out of order" so much as they were meeting "backwards." Now, backwards is fine as a device, but it does make the diary kind of futile and depressing, and it'll only get more frustrating if River never develops any backstory, seen or unseen, with our Doctor. I'm really hoping that was just a side-effect of there being only three River Song stories so far, and the ordering of the episodes from her perspective will get a bit less straightforward. It would frickin' thrill me if the current episode ended up featuring a post-Byzantium (or even just post-Pandorica) River.
They'll have to meet post prison/pre library at some point so he can give her that sonic screwdriver. The way she spoke of their last meeting, it sounded like a Doctor who was also well along into their relationship. He was upset when he gave her the screwdriver knowing what was about to happen to her, but obviously couldn't tell her why.
 
... It would frickin' thrill me if the current episode ended up featuring a post-Byzantium (or even just post-Pandorica) River.

It think that she is post- both events considering the statement by the prison guard:

"Sir, she's doing it again. Doctor Song, she's packing."

I think that this is meant to imply a post-Byzantium and post-Pandorica setting.
 
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I don't understand. Clearly, we saw that Smith is the last Doctor, ever. What on earth could you be referring to?
 
I wonder if we'll get some clue as to where in Rivers time stream we are in the Day of the Moon. We could theoretically be (for her) between Big Bang and Time of Angels. Though I tend to think for her it's all pre-Big Bang etc.

However during the discussion in the TARDIS with Amy and Rory, Rory mentioned that the Universe already exploded, to which River didn't seem at all surprised, though maybe she chose to ignore it knowing it was really a "spoiler".
 
River could have met 10 again while he was on the run from destiny between Waters of Mars and The End of Time. Clearly he had some other adventures during that time.
 
Another obvious explanation is that River from "The Impossible Astronaut" simply hasn't met the Twelfth Doctor yet. The "We're travelling in opposite directions" thing isn't an absolute rule, just a general guideline.
 
I'd love to see the blackboard, or notebook, or napkins, or wall that SM is keeping track of River's timeline(s) on.
 
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