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Riker/O'Brien "Defiant" Exchange

S

Smiley

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There has been much speculation about the remarks made by Tom Riker and Miles O'Brien as Riker steals the Defiant. While I think it is most likely that Riker was just trying to keep O'Brien off-balance, something occurred to me as I watched "A Matter of Honor" (TNG). O'Brien was telling Riker that he would be afraid to go to the Klingon ship just moments before he beams Riker over there. Perhaps Riker blames him to some degree for sowing fear and doubt at the worst possible moment.

Maybe the writers didn't even remember the TNG episode when writing "Defiant," but it's something to talk about other than petty Internet fights and hot actresses.
 
Thomas was created in TNG's sixth season, and "A Matter of Honor" was in TNG's second season. Since he was identical to William at the time of the transporter duplication, Thomas should have the same memories at that point in time.
 
He was actually created 16(?) years before the episode happened, though. He was duplicated while Riker was beaming up back then, and stuck on the planet until the Enterprise arrived.
 
...OTOH, O'Brien is a veteran in more senses of the word than one. Perhaps he did have history with Riker from the early 2350s already? ;)

Of course, if Tom tried to be clever and allude to some nasty episode he had had with O'Brien, surely he would try to pick one that was as recent as possible, desirably from after the duplication accident - otherwise, he'd just make O'Brien think "Now why is he bringing up that old, old thing? What makes William Riker think of old times rather than the more recent history we shared on the E-D...? Now waittaminit, what if he didn't share the E-D with me!?!". :devil:

Timo Saloniemi
 
Basically, Thomas Riker shares a lot of Will Riker's pre-Enterprise-D memories... but absolutely none of his memories from his time on the Ent-D. The only time Thomas had ever been on that ship was during "Second Chances", I don't believe it's even clarified he even met O'Brien then.

He could fake being Will to people who didn't or barely knew him, but O'Brien knew Will for over five years... Thomas knew he might have made a slip up so he just stayed the hell away from him.
 
Chief O'Brien had already transferred to DS9 at the time of "Second Chances" so Thomas did not meet him then. It is slightly possible that they met sometime before the Nelvana III accident, but not likely.

I like the theory that Thomas has it in for transporter chiefs though. :)
 
Smiley said:
Thomas was created in TNG's sixth season, and "A Matter of Honor" was in TNG's second season. Since he was identical to William at the time of the transporter duplication, Thomas should have the same memories at that point in time.
Click to expand...

Wow.

Why do you think Tom was wearing a Pre-Season 3 Ops uniform and look all deshevled (as though he had been alone for 8 years)?
 
^
Because that uniform was evidently already in use in some circles even before TNG S1. ;)
 
It amazes me that people still need an explanation for this. It's obvious that Kegek's explanation is the correct one. It was obvious when "Defiant" aired 10+ year ago.

And I think Smiley needs to watch "Second Chances" again.
 
Yes, it's been years since I've watched "Second Chances," and I'm only on the second season in my current run through the series. Mea culpa.

We've established that Tom couldn't know about any of the Ent-D events, but what could have gone through O'Brien's head? He thought it was Will, so he might have thought there was some residual bad blood from an incident on the Ent-D.
 
Smiley said:
but what could have gone through O'Brien's head? He thought it was Will, so he might have thought there was some residual bad blood from an incident on the Ent-D.
Click to expand...

Regardless of what O'Brien thought, he was still given an order from a superior officer and he followed it. Superior officers sometimes give seemingly pointless orders, but if you don't follow them, it's your ass.
I think an "oh, that explains it" line from O'Brien later in the episode would have clarified the situation, but a lot of us got the point from the beginning.
 
I thought it was pretty simple. Will knew O'Brien well, and presumably it was the same way around. If Tom had started talking to O'Brien, then it quickly would have become clear he was not Will. So he just shunned him off, and made it seem like he had a genuine reason.
 
Smiley said:
There has been much speculation about the remarks made by Tom Riker and Miles O'Brien as Riker steals the Defiant. While I think it is most likely that Riker was just trying to keep O'Brien off-balance, something occurred to me as I watched "A Matter of Honor" (TNG). O'Brien was telling Riker that he would be afraid to go to the Klingon ship just moments before he beams Riker over there. Perhaps Riker blames him to some degree for sowing fear and doubt at the worst possible moment.
Click to expand...

Huh? Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense at all. A little comment like that is something that you might, and I stress might get a little irritated over, but it's not even close to something that you'd hold a grudge for five years over.

The obvious explanation is still the best.
 
^

Especially since Tom Riker wouldn't have a single bit of knowledge about it, since he was still an unknown, stuck on the planet when Miles made the flip comment to Will Riker.
 
I know why Tom was so sore at O'Brien. The night before O'Brien left the Enterprise, the crew had a going away party for him. Somewhere during the party Will played his trombone and a drunken O'Brien commented that he shouldn't quit his day job. Man, you can bet that pissed Will off no end. He was still bitching and moaning about it later when Tom came along and of course it pissed Tom off too.

To sum it up: both Rikers hates music critics.

Robert
 
^

Accordin' to the books, yeah, Janeway & Riker were at the Academy together.

But if Riker was anti-Irish, why was Miles at the first poker game (TNG 'The Measure of a Man')?
 
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