Rihannsu...yes or no?

[Timo]

Or because any and all attempts to improve on the human body are considered taboo, in the double aftermath of the experiments that gave us Khan and his less civilized brethren, and Green's post-WWIII eugenics program. Longevity is fine and well if it doesn't run in your family or give you a tangible advantage. If it does, you are immediately suspected of "improvement" and burned on a stake.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[21Spike65]

Am I the only one who disliked the Rihannsu series? I haven't read The Empty Chair yet, but I just read the first four, and I count My Enemy, My Ally, Swordhunt, and Honor Blade to be three of my four least favorite Star Trek books that I've read. The only one I enjoyed was The Romulan Way.

I have such fond memories of "The Wounded Sky". I had been told by ST friends that I'd never find ST books in Hawaii, but I found it in the first big shop I went into, on my first overseas trip. The book accompanied me on flights all over the US mainland. It somehow seemed appropriate that the Enterprise was testing an amazing new drive system when I kept flying to new, strange locales.

When "My Enemy, My Ally" turned up, I devoured it, and was specially thrilled by the addition of perky, young Mr Naraht the horta. I guess the Rihannsu aspects were less important than seeing all "The Wounded Sky" guest cast again. And then "The Romulan Way" was such a great McCoy novel.

After the long wait for the next two instalments (who even knew they were coming?), I did find them lacking, and "The Empty Chair", after another long wait, I found overly long and rather tedious with all the ship battles, but I did like the way it incorporated new material about Romulans from canon.

I actually read The Romulan Way first, a couple years ago, and I too found it to be a great McCoy novel. Later, I picked up The Bloodwing Voyages, and read them in the past couple months. In My Enemy, My Ally, I just felt that the characterizations of the TOS crew were somehow off, and the portions with Ael either included too much of the Rihannsu language for me to get interested in, or just didn't keep my interest enough. However, I did at least find the plot enjoyable enough.

I reread The Romulan Way, and enjoyed it just as much the second time. I then moved on to Swordhunt (which in the omnibus combines Swordhunt and Honor Blade). I don't know exactly where the break between novels occurs, so I can't fully judge them separately, but on the whole, I felt like there was practically no plot. Nothing happened. It felt like the entirety of the two books was just a build-up for The Empty Chair, leaving them with no substance. It finally started to get interesting in the last chapter and a half or so, just in time for the book to end. I know they are intended as part of a series, but in a series, each book still needs enough of a story in it to hold interest and make you want to continue the series. On the plus side, I didn't find the characterizations to be as off in these novels.

I will likely try to find The Empty Chair to finish off the series at some point in the future, but I can't say my expectations will be very high. But who knows? Maybe it will surprise me.

 

[T'Bonz]

Guys, who CARES about the differences?! I've read the applicable books and know the differences, but it doesn't matter. They were written by different authors, at different times, with different "canon" available courtesy of the show and movies.

There is no way that every book from the 1970s through today can sync up and be in harmony with one another, and so why argue about it? Do what I do with books. Accept what appeals to you and make your own personal canon. Since the books are theoretically "non-canon," one is free to do that.

Even though the books have subtle differences, they are excellent reads. If other authors put forth plausible books on the same subject that differ yet again, I'll still read them.

Sometimes I think that Trek fans get so bogged down by details and wanting everything perfect, that they miss the fun of getting into the Star Trek universe and don't enjoy the stories because they're too busy picking them apart.

Then again, some people like to argue and debate, so perhaps that is just my bias.

I'll just keep reading and suspend my disbelief and not sweat the differences. As long as the books keep coming out and they're well-written and I enjoy them, it's all good.

Even if the Remans are Romulans, altered Vulcans, or exiled wormhole aliens from the wormhole of Bajor.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

After the long wait for the next two instalments (who even knew they were coming?), I did find them lacking, and "The Empty Chair", after another long wait, I found overly long and rather tedious with all the ship battles, but I did like the way it incorporated new material about Romulans from canon.

The last 3 books suffered from "reigning it in" as I call it. There were several things set up in the first two that she wasn't allowed to pay off as she had originally intended (or at least that is what I infer from what I've read elsewhere), like the political situation on Earth that led to Kirk's assignment to that mission being a parallel to Ael's (he was being sent out there to die or be disgraced). Also there was the VERY unresolved sexual tension between Kirk and Ael.

I would have liked to see where the story would have gone if DD hadn't been under instruction to "bring it in line" with the official continuity, and instead had been offered the chance to "Vanguard" it or "New Frontier" it.

I suspect things would have turned out MUCH differently.

 

[Christopher]

I then moved on to Swordhunt (which in the omnibus combines Swordhunt and Honor Blade). I don't know exactly where the break between novels occurs, so I can't fully judge them separately, but on the whole, I felt like there was practically no plot. Nothing happened. It felt like the entirety of the two books was just a build-up for The Empty Chair, leaving them with no substance.

Well, there were supposed to be two books, Swordhunt and The Empty Chair, published back-to-back and telling one big story. Duane finished Swordhunt, but then her other responsibilities got in the way and forced her to postpone TEC. But the schedule had already been made with two slots allotted to a Rihannsu duology. So editor John Ordover took Swordhunt and sliced it down the middle, Solomon-style, releasing it as two half-size books instead of one. That's why you can't find the break between them -- because there is no break in terms of how the story was written, only in terms of how it was published. The volume entitled Honor Blade didn't even renumber the chapters -- it just picked up with Chapter 6 (or 7 or whatever). And that's why Swordhunt (encompassing the so-called Honor Blade) feels like it's buildup to TEC -- because it is. It's the first half of a single story whose second half is TEC.

It finally started to get interesting in the last chapter and a half or so, just in time for the book to end. I know they are intended as part of a series, but in a series, each book still needs enough of a story in it to hold interest and make you want to continue the series.

A valid point. But keep in mind that TEC was intended to come out within a month of Swordhunt, not six years later.

 

[21Spike65]

I then moved on to Swordhunt (which in the omnibus combines Swordhunt and Honor Blade). I don't know exactly where the break between novels occurs, so I can't fully judge them separately, but on the whole, I felt like there was practically no plot. Nothing happened. It felt like the entirety of the two books was just a build-up for The Empty Chair, leaving them with no substance.

Well, there were supposed to be two books, Swordhunt and The Empty Chair, published back-to-back and telling one big story. Duane finished Swordhunt, but then her other responsibilities got in the way and forced her to postpone TEC. But the schedule had already been made with two slots allotted to a Rihannsu duology. So editor John Ordover took Swordhunt and sliced it down the middle, Solomon-style, releasing it as two half-size books instead of one. That's why you can't find the break between them -- because there is no break in terms of how the story was written, only in terms of how it was published. The volume entitled Honor Blade didn't even renumber the chapters -- it just picked up with Chapter 6 (or 7 or whatever). And that's why Swordhunt (encompassing the so-called Honor Blade) feels like it's buildup to TEC -- because it is. It's the first half of a single story whose second half is TEC.

I didn't realize that Swordhunt and Honor Blade were intended to be part of the same book. That does make sense why it seems like one story then--because it is.

It finally started to get interesting in the last chapter and a half or so, just in time for the book to end. I know they are intended as part of a series, but in a series, each book still needs enough of a story in it to hold interest and make you want to continue the series.

A valid point. But keep in mind that TEC was intended to come out within a month of Swordhunt, not six years later.

True.

 

[Sci]

I'm not sure where you're reading hostility from, what insults or defensiveness are you talking about?

Saying, "You haven't read it very well" because a fellow misremembers a detail from a book is pretty insulting to some people. I'd be pretty frickin' insulted if someone presumed that I didn't read something very well simply because I misremembered a minor detail.

But the topic I was discussing with KRAD, and in fact the original topic of the thread was whether or not the narratives of Duane's Rihannsu books were compatible with the narrative of the Vulcan's Soul books. And regarding these two points and specifically that of the Romulan Commander's fate, I don't believe they are incompatible. I would say that my position is supported by the text, which is why I was confused about the position you were trying to take in this regard.

I would argue that if they are compatible, it is only if we assume that 24th Century Romulus underwent a fundamental shift in type of government during the 2370s and then reverted back to what it had been before. The ENT novels The Good That Men Do and Kobayashi Maru establish the Romulan Star Empire to be headed by a single Praetor, which is how the DS9 episode "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" and the Vulcan's Noun novels establish it to function, and the Vanguard novel Summon the Thunder establishes this to be the set-up in 2265. Rihannsu, on the other hand, establishes the Star Empire to have multiple praetors -- a praetorate. The only explanation I can come up with is that there was some sort of coup or major constitutional change late in the 2260s and that Ael's ascension to Empress led to a constitutional change back to the previous setup.

Which isn't impossible, but it does seem a bit implausible.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Sometimes I think that Trek fans get so bogged down by details and wanting everything perfect, that they miss the fun of getting into the Star Trek universe and don't enjoy the stories because they're too busy picking them apart.

Seems about correct.

The Romulan Way & Spock's World are two of my favorite if not my favorite Trek books ever. TRW pretty much solidfied the Romulans for me and they in my mind will always be as they are in that novel.


Honestly I haven't read alot of recent Trek lit other then the Khan series.

Sharr

 

[Therin of Andor]

Also there was the VERY unresolved sexual tension between Kirk and Ael.

For that you need Chris Claremont's graphic novel, "Debt of Honor".

 

[Sci]

Also there was the VERY unresolved sexual tension between Kirk and Ael.

For that you need Chris Claremont's graphic novel, "Debt of Honor".

How graphic is it?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Also there was the VERY unresolved sexual tension between Kirk and Ael.

For that you need Chris Claremont's graphic novel, "Debt of Honor".

Oh, in the case of that particular female Romulan, I'd say their "tension" was VERY "satisfied"...

 

[Therin of Andor]

How graphic is it?

Not at all, sadly, but the new character of T'Kir is there, and Claremont had wanted to use Ael, too, but the Star Trek Office said no. The main guest Starfleet character is named Diane Morwood, after Diane Duane (and partner, Peter Morwood).

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Also there was the VERY unresolved sexual tension between Kirk and Ael.

For that you need Chris Claremont's graphic novel, "Debt of Honor".

How graphic is it?

Not at all. It's more "wink wink nudge nudge" implication about the parentage of a certain supporting character...

How graphic is it?

Not at all, sadly, but the new character of T'Kir is there, and Claremont had wanted to use Ael, to, but the Star Trek Office said no. The main guest Starfleet character is named Diane Morwood, after Diane Duane (and partner, Peter Morwood).

I had never heard that before...where'd you hear it from?

Oh, and of course don't forget the "shout out" to John Ford in the same graphic novel...

 

[Hartzilla2007]

In the Duane books, the Romulan Commander (the name Charvanek comes only from the Sherman/Shwartz books) has reportedly died in disgrace as a result of the cloaking-device incident. In the Sherman/Shwartz books, the Commander lived and became a powerful player in Romulan politics.

Died in disgrace? I thought that Ael knew only that her niece had been exiled and had no idea where she was. Towards the end of The Empty Chair, she says to one of the Enterprise crew that she hopes that the three can tell her where she is.

Yeah I read that too also the 3rd Vulcan's Soul Book contains references to the Rihannsu Books

1) The Archivist's Note that mentions Terise Haleakala-LoBrutto from the Romulan Way-The Empty Chair

2) The mentioning of Charvanek being of royal bloodline aka related to the Imperial family.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I had never heard that before...where'd you hear it from?

Mr Claremont was my guest on a panel about ST conventions at a Sydney convention.

of course don't forget the "shout out" to John Ford in the same graphic novel...

Sadly, cameos by Arex, M'Ress, Naraht and Peter David were nixed.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I had never heard that before...where'd you hear it from?

Mr Claremont was my guest on a panel about ST conventions at a Sydney convention.

of course don't forget the "shout out" to John Ford in the same graphic novel...

Sadly, cameos by Arex, M'Ress, Naraht and Peter David were nixed.

Thank you Arnold doctrine...

 

[Therin of Andor]

Thank you Arnold doctrine...

I have a b/w preview book of official selected advance photocopies of "Debt of Honor" and one page, McCoy is talking to a beautiful Deltan woman, Ms Fleischer, IIRC, outside Starfleet HQ. By the time the much-delayed hardcover came out, the woman had grown a huge beehive of 60s hair.

 

[Christopher]

I have a b/w preview book of official photocopies of the first 10-15 pages and on the first page, McCoy is talking to a beautiful Deltan woman, Ms Fleischer, IIRC, outside Starfleet HQ. By the time the much-delayed hardcover came out, the woman had grown a huge beehive of 60s hair.

You're talking about Debt of Honor? The shot of McCoy talking to a woman outside of Starfleet HQ is on p. 24 of the hardcover.

 

[KRAD]

The main guest Starfleet character is named Diane Morwood, after Diane Duane (and partner, Peter Morwood).

More accurate to say that a Starfleet officer who made a brief (albeit somewhat important) cameo in the story was named Diane Morwood (and Peter Morwood is Diane's husband).

 

[foravalon]

Died in disgrace? I thought that Ael knew only that her niece had been exiled and had no idea where she was. Towards the end of The Empty Chair, she says to one of the Enterprise crew that she hopes that the three can tell her where she is.

Yeah I read that too also the 3rd Vulcan's Soul Book contains references to the Rihannsu Books

1) The Archivist's Note that mentions Terise Haleakala-LoBrutto from the Romulan Way-The Empty Chair

2) The mentioning of Charvanek being of royal bloodline aka related to the Imperial family.

Yar, that is indeed the truth as it was written in the books. It was great to hear something of Terise again. But you've mistaken the quotations there, it's Christopher who believes that Duane killed the character in her books, and rfmcdpei who correctly observed that this isn't the case. I didn't write either of those two quotes, I just chimed in to comment that Chris is mistaken. Which wasn't meant as an insult just an observation. I'm sorry that Chris views it that way, but I'm sure he can understand the misinterpretation of one's intentions when writing in message boards.

I can't applaud enough the hardwork and plain awesome-ness that Sherman and Shwartz put into thier work. Vulcan's Soul is epic and they've done an awesome job reconciling it with the Romulan Way, in the ways which they could, it's a fitting tribute to the excellent Ms. Duane. I love those ladies.