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Riddles - for the first time

Timelord79 (he/him)

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I just watched Riddles...

I found that I have no memory of this episode at all. It was entirely unfamiliar, though I must have seen it at some point, cause I've seen them all. Or so I thought.
Wonderful felling to see some, for all intends and purposes, new Star Trek after all those years.

The episode was nothing special. A nice allegory for the acceptance of the disabled.
But of course the reset button at the end was inevitable.
 
I just watched Riddles...

I found that I have no memory of this episode at all. It was entirely unfamiliar, though I must have seen it at some point, cause I've seen them all. Or so I thought.
Wonderful felling to see some, for all intends and purposes, new Star Trek after all those years.

The episode was nothing special. A nice allegory for the acceptance of the disabled.
But of course the reset button at the end was inevitable.

Actually, the new Tuvok wasn't disabled, he was perfectly accomplished, he probably would have become an artist, he had a potential for leading a much happier and richer life than old Tuvok. If he had refused the procedure, Janeway no doubt would have pulled a tuvix on him too, bitch!
 
I wanted him to stay that way. what a plot twist that would have been. it felt tuvix 2. The cloaking frequency on a cake didn't seem likely, but I enjoyed this episode. It's a rewatcher for me.
 
I wanted him to stay that way. what a plot twist that would have been. it felt tuvix 2. The cloaking frequency on a cake didn't seem likely, but I enjoyed this episode. It's a rewatcher for me.
Tuvix was a better cook than Neelix and likely a better tactical officer than Tuvok, plus he was also easier to be around than either of them. From an efficiency standpoint alone it was a horrible decision to kill him, from an ethical standpoint it was a crime.
 
This is another ethical dilemma episode. Would we choose to have a family member undergo a procedure to return him/her to us as we knew them or accept a new person who inhabits the same body? If a friend or family member had a rapid change in personality, I'd surmise that most people would rush him/her to immediate medical care. I think this is what this episode explores. As an outsider looking in, it is easy to distinguish the two personalities as unique and accept that "different is ok" or even "better." But to those who are closer, Tuvok's friends, the loss is greater than they are willing or able to accept considering the options. As an aside, IMO, this sort of story telling is where Trek really shines.
 
This is another ethical dilemma episode. Would we choose to have a family member undergo a procedure to return him/her to us as we knew them or accept a new person who inhabits the same body? If a friend or family member had a rapid change in personality, I'd surmise that most people would rush him/her to immediate medical care. I think this is what this episode explores. As an outsider looking in, it is easy to distinguish the two personalities as unique and accept that "different is ok" or even "better." But to those who are closer, Tuvok's friends, the loss is greater than they are willing or able to accept considering the options. As an aside, IMO, this sort of story telling is where Trek really shines.

If the family member is happier in his new state and unwilling to undergo any procedure that will return him to his former state, do you have a right to force him to undergo it anyway?
 
From an efficiency standpoint alone it was a horrible decision to kill him, from an ethical standpoint it was a crime.
Subsequent to being return to their original state, Neelix and Tuvok could have insisted on being combined again ... except they didn't.

:)
 
If the family member is happier in his new state and unwilling to undergo any procedure that will return him to his former state, do you have a right to force him to undergo it anyway?

Who's to be the voice of the one who is "lost" if those closest to that person refuse to step forward? The new personality could be considered no more than an imposter that is occupying the same body. So, one wouldn't be forcing the person known before to undergo a procedure but rather returning property to the proper owner. In short, Tuvok's new personality was no more entitled to make decisions in this context than a squatter has the right to take ownership of your home while you are away on holiday. Of course, a squatter would love such a permissive sensibility. ;)
 
From an efficiency standpoint alone it was a horrible decision to kill him, from an ethical standpoint it was a crime.

Subsequent to being return to their original state, Neelix and Tuvok could have insisted on being combined again ... except they didn't.

:)

This thread is about the episode "Riddles" where a member of the xenophobic species called the Ba'neth attacks Tuvok and leaves him with brain damage. "Tuvix" is a similar and comparable story (at least in the context we are discussing). While you're commenting on Tuvix, your comment has applicability to both episodes in that no one showed any interest in returning to his damaged/combined self. That's very telling of whether the correct decision was made, IMO.
 
I hypothesize that the crew would get very fat eating delicious pastries instead of Leola root.
 
Even after you described the episode I can't remember it.

I read the description on Wikipedia and I can't remember it. It perfectly describes the episode of Family Guy that just aired, though. Except with Peter as Neelix and Brian as Tuvok.
 
I just really hate the reset at the end. It seems Tuvok came out completely unaffected from the experience. No, that little joke didn't count.

I know that Star Trek wasn't big on following such issues, but usually there was atleast some pretense of an impact.

This episode just moves on.
 
I just really hate the reset at the end. It seems Tuvok came out completely unaffected from the experience. No, that little joke didn't count.

I know that Star Trek wasn't big on following such issues, but usually there was atleast some pretense of an impact.

This episode just moves on.

^ Agreed Praetorian, though reinforcing Neelix's emotionalism - his personal antithesis if not nemesis - was a big step for Tuvie. I like how Tuvok was written and performed with that emotional sensitivity of others.

That said, the Tuvok of Riddles may have seemed friendly and harmless, but physiologically he was still a Vulcan. His lowered inhibitions would inevitably unleash powerful Vulcan instinctual emotions and Tuvok's logic would be ill-equipped to manage it.

Vulcans are not humans - logic was necessary for their race to keep from destroying itself. The significance of Surak's teachings for the very survival of the Vulcan species are well-established across the canon.

Riddles Tuvok was a dangerous threat that no one seemed to acknowledge, least of all the EMH, whose job it was to recognize that fact. He might have at least compelled Tuvok to wear a cortical monitor before discharging him into Neelix's supervision.

I just thought the episode glossed over the species characteristics and assumed Tuvok to be perfectly human, and so 'fixed.' Very enlighteneded. Until the day he pulls a Lon Suder or Vorik thing.

Still, loved the epi, fantastic job on everyone's part. Yet another instance demonstrating that Neelix's 'function on this crew is diverse.' I don't think any other character could have provided 'counterpoint' to Tuvok's condition as well as Neelix - Tuvok's antithesis. I much prefer this epi to Tuvix. Much less creepy.

(BTW in Tuvix I thought Janes did - if not the right thing - the better thing).
 
I just really hate the reset at the end. It seems Tuvok came out completely unaffected from the experience. No, that little joke didn't count.

I know that Star Trek wasn't big on following such issues, but usually there was atleast some pretense of an impact.

This episode just moves on.
We never heard the memories of either Tuvok or Neelix of what it was like to be the same person for three or four weeks. What do they remember of that period? That could have been interesting for us to know. How disappointing!
 
They tried to save the personality of a smart-bomb in a hologram. Why couldn't they have done the same for fun Tuvok? To me he seemed to be a distinct person from plain boring Tuvok.
 
The Voyager writers were lazy so they leaned on the Tuvok/Neelix 'Odd Couple' sitcom crap over and over no matter how boring it was.
 
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