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Rewatching Voyager

Innocence

This one could have been so much more than it was. I enjoy the concept of reverse aging (Hello Benjamin Button) but we don't find out about it until the end of the episode. To get to that point, we had to go through tedium, and an alien race that seemed really unreasonable, especially when Janeway was trying to be nice and respectful towards their culture. Every time Janeway offered to help the alien leader (And I forgot her name), she shot Janeway down. Now there was stuff I did like, such as Tuvok having to be a parent and the kids acting like kids. I also really liked the ending but I wish that ending was spread out over the course of the entire episode. Because it wasn't, this wasn't one of my favorites of the season so far.
I'm surprised you thought this one was boring - I enjoy it every time I watch it. I've never understood, either why Prelate Alcia had to be so hostile - perhaps the fact that they never make contact with aliens accounts for this fact.
But overall I thought the children were enjoyable, esp. their interaction with Tuvok. If there was something that I didn't like was the fact that they never explained how the other two "children" could have "gone missing" without Tuvok noticing it.
Still, a good episode.
The Thaw

There's always a mixed reaction when it comes to this episode, but I love it. It has that certain Masks Quality that I really like in Trek, those wacky insane stories that grab your attention even though they might be a little on the dumb side. In this one, I love how they dealt with Fear and McKean's performance as the Clown is always a treat to watch. Also, that final scene where Janeway tricks fear is one of the most badass Janeway moments in the series. Her "I know" really is terrifying, and then the fade to black to end the episode. Great stuff.
This is one of my favourite episodes in the entire franchise. I love the ending but there are other parts as well which deal with the nature of fear and how to overcome it - all very interesting discussions between Janeway and the rest of her crew. The Doctor was also fun on this one and I especially liked the fact that he had a chance to leave sickbay before he got his mobile emitter.
Janeway shines at the end - but when doesn't she? :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:Together with INNOCENCE, I think both these episodes contributed to the feeling that the Delta Quadrant is a region of space we know practically nothing about and as Voyager is making its way towards the AQ, we/they can never know what strange phenomena to expect. Which, IMO, is the essence of Voyager.
 

Ah cool! I watched it last night the end of epsiode 6 almost madee cry ;(. Evie Choe excuse my language but what a bitch.

Returning to Voyager yes I really like the Thaw! A real get in your head episode about the true concept of fear. Janeway's speech at the end is iconic. What a great performance from both her and the clown.
 
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Oh dear. I'm one of those ones who doesn't like the Thaw and for the life of me I can't get the appeal. Part of me realizes that it is very close to being a TOS episode and it's well acted but as far as the rest is concerned... it just didn't do anything for me. I thought it was ridiculous and it didn't frighten me in the least.

I'm also not into sci-fi horror even though this was mild as far as the horror part goes.

I 'think' those of us who don't like it would rather it have shown us Kim's actual fears. If we 'knew' he was afraid of clowns then that might have added something more to it for us. Then maybe it might have made a better impression on us and given a bit of insight into Kim's character and added to his arc.
 
I 'think' those of us who don't like it would rather it have shown us Kim's actual fears. If we 'knew' he was afraid of clowns then that might have added something more to it for us. Then maybe it might have made a better impression on us and given a bit of insight into Kim's character and added to his arc.

I'm not sure if the Clown represented Kim's fears, but more just fear itself. It was actually a pretty interesting representation because there are a lot of people afraid of Clowns so that made some sense.

I'm surprised you thought this one was boring - I enjoy it every time I watch it. I've never understood, either why Prelate Alcia had to be so hostile - perhaps the fact that they never make contact with aliens accounts for this fact.

Probably, but it would have saved a lot of time had they just explained to Voyager why things were this way. Like I said, I get maybe they were uncomfortable with outsiders, having to avoid contact, but I'm not sure getting rid of them by being so hostile and violent is the smartest thing they could have done.
 
Tuvix

To be honest, I didn't really feel like doing a write up for this episode. Don't get me wrong, I like it and all, but I'm kind of tired talking about it except for one thing. Couldn't Janeway clone Tuvix and then do the split on one of the clones? Would that be as unethical as killing Tuvix to bring Neelix and Tuvok back? I know the episode was designed for Janeway to make the hard decisions, and she was probably in the right, but I would have wanted to explore all options.

I did really like the interactions with Kes and Janeway though. In fact, some of my favorite Voyager scenes are those intimate conversations Janeway has with characters like Kes, Tuvok, Seven, or Torres. Still, going back to my point about being tired of talking about this one, one of the reasons I do these write ups is because there might be an episode I am excited about that never gets mentioned that I wanted to give love to. For example, Lifesigns is one of those episodes. When was the last time you talked about Dinara Pel and how awesome of a character she was in the Voyager forum? Hell, I might even make a Dinara Pel appreciation thread (Probably not ;) ), but it's those kind of episodes I'm enjoying. I feel like Tuvix has been talked to death at this point.
 
Tuvix

To be honest, I didn't really feel like doing a write up for this episode. Don't get me wrong, I like it and all, but I'm kind of tired talking about it except for one thing. Couldn't Janeway clone Tuvix and then do the split on one of the clones? Would that be as unethical as killing Tuvix to bring Neelix and Tuvok back? I know the episode was designed for Janeway to make the hard decisions, and she was probably in the right, but I would have wanted to explore all options.

I did really like the interactions with Kes and Janeway though. In fact, some of my favorite Voyager scenes are those intimate conversations Janeway has with characters like Kes, Tuvok, Seven, or Torres. Still, going back to my point about being tired of talking about this one, one of the reasons I do these write ups is because there might be an episode I am excited about that never gets mentioned that I wanted to give love to. For example, Lifesigns is one of those episodes. When was the last time you talked about Dinara Pel and how awesome of a character she was in the Voyager forum? Hell, I might even make a Dinara Pel appreciation thread (Probably not ;) ), but it's those kind of episodes I'm enjoying. I feel like Tuvix has been talked to death at this point.

Cloning? Never thought of the idea. But how would Tuvok and Neelix have felt about their mixed breed clone? Ultimately, the whole thing might have turned out to be even more complicated than it was already.
I think Janeway made the right decision - as usual, I can easily relate to it. And look at her facial expression at the end: she's struggling with the consequences. This was a situation in which a decision had to be made. And Janeway always makes decisions even if she knows that they might have dire consequences. This is one of her strengths as captain and as a person in my book.
 
It might have been better to have sedated to Tuvix and done the procedure while the was asleep instead of forcing him to beg for his life but then where would be the drama and controversy in that?
 
Cloning? Never thought of the idea. But how would Tuvok and Neelix have felt about their mixed breed clone? Ultimately, the whole thing might have turned out to be even more complicated than it was already.

I don't think Tuvok would have had an issue with it because it probably would have seen it as logical. Neelix and Kes might have because that could be weird for Kes, who was already struggling with being stuck in the middle of this. Still, I do wonder if there was a third option. Tuvix has the right to live as anyone, unless the crew decided to cryogentically freeze him until a solution was found. Maybe it was Janeway's mistake to let him adapt to the crew and the ship for as long as he did. Janeway maybe made the right decision (Needs of the many and all that) but I do think she was hurt by it. It's almost like her no-win scenario.
 
Hated The Thaw when I first saw it. Really disliked Tuvix when I first saw it. I came around on both & now like them.
 
RESOLUTIONS
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Resolutions

Speaking of the Dinara Pel Appreciation Thread.. ;)

This episode might be famous for two reasons. We got to see the Chakotay and Janeway shippers squee with delight, and we got an appearance from a Monkey. I still don't really understand the purpose of the Monkey (Unless could that be Chakotay's spirit guide and the Monkey represented the Chakotay side of her conscience?) but it was fun nonetheless. Really enjoy the chemistry of Mulgrew and Beltran in this episode.

On the Voyager side, this was Tuvok's Galileo 7. Here is a vulcan put into command and he has to weigh the emotional distress of the crew, but I was wondering something. Why was he so hesitant to break orders. I mean this was the same guy who saw the crews emotions in Prime Factors about wanting to get home, and he made the transfer for the teleportation device on his own, shocking everyone. I would think that Tuvok, despite getting a talking to from Janeway, would have not had to be so convinced to break the order and go talk with the Vidiians.

One last thing, because this is basically the last time we see the Vidiians until I think Fury, I want to take a minute and appreciate Dinara Pel. I loved this character and in terms of those minor one off characters who might be a favorite, she is up there. I loved her compassion, her fun, her fear and how she got over her fear of the disease. Also, she gave the Doctor a name, and it was a name I wish would have stuck. Schmaullus. Dr. Schmaullus. It fit so well.
 
One small thing that always bugged me about Resolutions is that as far as I know Tom Paris would have been First Officer. I think it might have been an interesting bit of drama to see Tom and Harry on opposite sides of the issue...plus Tom reporting directly to Tuvok.
 
Oh, wait, that means "Endgame", doesn't it? NEVER MIND!


I never understood the antipathy toward this episode. Never did. It wasn't simply a two-part character study that tested my interest like the finale for "NEXT GENERATION". Nor was it schizophrenic like the finale for "DEEP SPACE NINE". I don't remember the final episode for "ORIGINAL SERIES". And as far as I'm concerned, the finale for "ENTERPRISE" was a complete disaster. "Engame" is the only Trek series finale I have any fond memories of.
 
Anyway, back to where I am in my Voyager journey, and I watched three episodes tonight (And maybe a fourth)

Basics

I think I'm going to try to talk about these episodes together, even though part 1 is a lot better than part 2. I loved how tense and season self referential Part 1 was. You've got the Kazon NIstrim targeting a specific part of the ship, which was pretty good strategy, and while that was happening this episode referred back to The 37s with the landing, Tattoo with the scene between Chakotay and his father, the Kazon arc (Of course), and Investigations with Paris going to get help from the Talaxians, and Meld, with the return of Lon Sudor. I thought the stuff with wondering if Voyager was heading into the trap was really the highlights of the episode, as well as the ending with Cullah and Seska boarding the ship. This was a great ending to season 2, even if it wasn't as strong as some of the other endings in Voyager (Like Scorpion).

Part 2 picks up right where part 1 leaves off with the crew on the alien planet. I have to say this part of the episode wasn't all that great. I would have liked to see more "Basic" stuff of survival rather than that alien race. Part 1 ended with Cullah saying "Let's see if you can survive without it" and while we see Chakotay making a fire and them making weapons, I wish the aliens on the planet were not part of the story. The better parts of the episode, however, was what was happening with Sudor, who really did become one of Voyager's most interesting characters in his short time we saw him. We see a guy who has made a living of killing and is starting to turn his life around, and I loved seeing the psychological impact of him becoming a killer again. You can see it really hurts him even though this time it is for the necessary good. That scene in engineering where he kills all the Kazon, except for one unfortunately, with one shot each was great. He sure puts GI Joe to shame. :lol:

Anyway, as a way to end the Kazon arc, I liked Basics. I wish we might have gotten more with the Baby and maybe it was a copout that the Baby wasn't Chakotay's son but really what else could they have done. Maybe keep the baby on Voyager and have Chakotay raise it, but that would cost some money I'm sure. Might have given the character more ummpf in the later seasons though if he had been a father. I'm also sad Sudor was killed. He could have been a very interesting recurring guest star, and I like seeing Brad Dourif in stuff. Other than that, it was a pretty good two parter.

Flashback

This might sound blasphemous, but I think I'm starting to like this episode more while I'm starting to like Trials and Tribble-ations a little bit less. Yeah, I know Tribbles is a better episode, and it was really done with love, but I really liked how Flashback came together. Also, I've been wanting more stuff in the movie era and we got to see pretty much The Undiscovered Country from the Excelsior's perspective. So what if there are some continuity errors like two months vs. two days. I don't really think about that kind of thing watching the episode. What I do think about is here is this interesting storyline about a virus that uses memory engrams to attach itself to the host. This allowed us to go back to the days of Excelsior and see Captain Sulu and Rand one more time.

I will say the only thing I didn't like about this episode was Janeway's "They would have been booting out of starfleet today" line. Oh really? Has Starfleet gotten so rigid that it will forget its past? Maybe the Dominion were right. It's interesting. One of the reasons I'm not as much a fan of Tribbles while it is a great episode is I find the bowing down to the original cast at the Alter of Star Trek kind of annoying. Here it's the other extreme of being overly critical. They couldn't really come up with a satisfactory medium to honor the original cast during the 30th anniversary, but I do applaud them for trying.
 
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