Rewatching Voyager

[Thomas Eugene]

A hah don't worry it wasn't too long and I really enjoyed reading it. First things first I added your Pinterest.

Thanks (for both points). I've noticed on Pinterest that I had a new follower - again, thank you.

As you say TNG feels a boring compared to Voyager, hence why I can only watch sporadic episodes from time to time. I've never seen any enterprise all I've heard are bad reviews so I'm not particularly up for watching an episode xD real shame if tom and B'Ellana directed it as well they're both fantastic actors.

This is interesting, you know. In my country we had never heard of Star Trek basically before the end of the last millennium and when I saw the first episode (around 2003, I think), it was a TNG one. At that time, I think only TNG was on so I started watching it. Back then, I thought that it was an OK show. Which is understandable since we had nothing else over here. Then a year later DS9 and VOY both were started to be shown on TV so I watched an episode here and there. I fell in love with Voyager immediately and though it took years before I was able to see the whole show from beginning to end, no other Star Trek series could grab my attention any more. Consequently I forgot most of TNG and basically all of DS9, of which I had even seen less. Now that I can/could rewatch them any time, I'm beginning to discover that DS9 is not a bad show - albeit by far not as interesting as VOY for me - and that TNG isn't able to maintain my attention any more. I watch an episode once in a blue moon, esp. when I catch one on TV and then I quickly forget about it and move on to something else.

And exactly!! I had to post a comment the other day because someone had came into a Voyager thread and started saying it was rubbish and the worst star trek. Why come in a Voyager thread if all you have are bad comments about the show? I shut them down precedingly and told them a show with this many devoted fans 20 years after release cannot be boring or rubbish and told him to take his opinions elsewhere.

Oh well ... these things happen all the time. I usually have no energy to argue so I simply don't react. I really can't figure out why people feel better by telling you that they think what you like is inferior to what they like - but let them do it. Doesn't make any difference. I can't understand, either why they can't accept that you might like something else than they do. E.g., most of the people I know simply adore FRIENDS and shows like that. They are supposed to be "humorous". I find them boring after two or three episodes (for me a show like YOU RANG MY LORD? is much funnier) . And then what? They like it (or GILMORE GIRLS, e.g.) and I don't. But none of us wishes to join a forum of the other person's favourite show just to tell everyone there how much we think their show sucks. The whole thing is beyond me but it is obviosly a lot of fun for some people.
Also, I've been tying to explain to avid Star Trek fans, who usually hate VOY but like all the other shows, that I actually envy them because they have more things to enjoy than I do. I wish I could become as enthusiastic about other shows as they do - but I simply can't. And of course, the idea of lecturing them about how their show means nothing to me (but mine is the best of all) would never enter my mind. They like those shows and I like VOY. Big deal. It all proves that there's no accounting for tastes - and that's that basically.

(I can't remember what it's called but that episode where it's like the hunger games trapped in that void and she starts a mini federation what an episode!)

It's actually called THE VOID and her lines in it (like always) are beautiful:
"The Federation is based on mutual cooperation. The idea that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Voyager can't survive here alone. But if we form a temporary alliance with other ships, maybe we can pool our resources and escape. [ ... ] Maybe we'll only survive for two days instead of seven. On the other hand, if we share what we have instead of hoarding it, we might find other people willing to do the same. If we combine our technology, we can find ways of improving our situation, and ultimately get the hell out of this place. We may lose a little weight, gentlemen, but we won't lose who we are."

What is it you find wrong about her decision in Endgame? It was certainly against the principles she normally holds and I would have preferred another 15 seasons of Voyager xD what do you find wrong with it?

Basically, what everyone else finds wrong about it: that this decision was irresponsible of her and that the Janeway I knew during the previous 170 episodes would have acted with a lot more responsibility. To me it seemed like old Janeway was not her former self - perhaps she was best at clinging to her principles in the Delta Quadrant only. In the place where Voyager truly belongs in my interpretation.
So yes, I didn't like the whole idea. But in all honesty, I must admit that what I was pissed off by even more was the fact that it had to be Seven (for the umpteenth time) who was the catalyst of the events shown there. I understand why Janeway felt so protective about her and why she saw what she'd achieved with her as a triumph over the borg but to me this was not a strong enough reason to do what she did. I've always been of the opinion that the dead should be left in peace - death is an inevitable fact of life and we shouldn't interfere with it. Also, at Chakotay's grave she made it sound like it would be better for Chakotay if she brought Seven back ("I know it wasn't easy living all these years without her, Chakotay. But when I'm through, things might be better for all of us."), which again I found strange considering that Chakotay was also dead. If he had been alive at that point, I could have understood her perhaps a bit more but since he was also dead, the whole thing didn't make much sense to me.
So yes, I love Janeway but I don't really like Admiral Janeway. However, as I said before (I think), the whole ENDGAME thing gave us THE ETERNAL TIDE, for which I'm grateful to Kirsten Beyer because I thought it was a great novel.

And yes ... 15 more seasons of Voyager would have been great - I would even have felt grateful for just one more season. Since the actors are too old now, I could still see the continuation of the story in the form of animated cartoons with the original voices. However, it's highly unlikely it's ever going to happen.
At the same time, the relaunch books are great so it's actually nice to be part of the post-ENDGAME adventures of the VOY crew.

P.S do you remember those qoutes of by heart? :O

This is a very nice assumption on your part but I'm afraid I don't. There are some that I do but usually only in my native language (Hungarian). However, incredible as it might sound, when I want to learn English, I sometimes use Voyager for this purpose. This occasionally includes memorizing passages as well. I know Janeway's speech at the end of CARETAKER by heart, just like the doctor's closing lines in DARKLING. But these are the only two passages I know by heart in English.
For everything else, there's Chrissie's transcripts Site at
http://www.chakoteya.net/index.html

 

[Archimago]

Thanks (for both points). I've noticed on Pinterest that I had a new follower - again, thank you.



This is interesting, you know. In my country we had never heard of Star Trek basically before the end of the last millennium and when I saw the first episode (around 2003, I think), it was a TNG one. At that time, I think only TNG was on so I started watching it. Back then, I thought that it was an OK show. Which is understandable since we had nothing else over here. Then a year later DS9 and VOY both were started to be shown on TV so I watched an episode here and there. I fell in love with Voyager immediately and though it took years before I was able to see the whole show from beginning to end, no other Star Trek series could grab my attention any more. Consequently I forgot most of TNG and basically all of DS9, of which I had even seen less. Now that I can/could rewatch them any time, I'm beginning to discover that DS9 is not a bad show - albeit by far not as interesting as VOY for me - and that TNG isn't able to maintain my attention any more. I watch an episode once in a blue moon, esp. when I catch one on TV and then I quickly forget about it and move on to something else.



Oh well ... these things happen all the time. I usually have no energy to argue so I simply don't react. I really can't figure out why people feel better by telling you that they think what you like is inferior to what they like - but let them do it. Doesn't make any difference. I can't understand, either why they can't accept that you might like something else than they do. E.g., most of the people I know simply adore FRIENDS and shows like that. They are supposed to be "humorous". I find them boring after two or three episodes (for me a show like YOU RANG MY LORD? is much funnier) . And then what? They like it (or GILMORE GIRLS, e.g.) and I don't. But none of us wishes to join a forum of the other person's favourite show just to tell everyone there how much we think their show sucks. The whole thing is beyond me but it is obviosly a lot of fun for some people.
Also, I've been tying to explain to avid Star Trek fans, who usually hate VOY but like all the other shows, that I actually envy them because they have more things to enjoy than I do. I wish I could become as enthusiastic about other shows as they do - but I simply can't. And of course, the idea of lecturing them about how their show means nothing to me (but mine is the best of all) would never enter my mind. They like those shows and I like VOY. Big deal. It all proves that there's no accounting for tastes - and that's that basically.



It's actually called THE VOID and her lines in it (like always) are beautiful:
"The Federation is based on mutual cooperation. The idea that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Voyager can't survive here alone. But if we form a temporary alliance with other ships, maybe we can pool our resources and escape. [ ... ] Maybe we'll only survive for two days instead of seven. On the other hand, if we share what we have instead of hoarding it, we might find other people willing to do the same. If we combine our technology, we can find ways of improving our situation, and ultimately get the hell out of this place. We may lose a little weight, gentlemen, but we won't lose who we are."


Basically, what everyone else finds wrong about it: that this decision was irresponsible of her and that the Janeway I knew during the previous 170 episodes would have acted with a lot more responsibility. To me it seemed like old Janeway was not her former self - perhaps she was best at clinging to her principles in the Delta Quadrant only. In the place where Voyager truly belongs in my interpretation.
So yes, I didn't like the whole idea. But in all honesty, I must admit that what I was pissed off by even more was the fact that it had to be Seven (for the umpteenth time) who was the catalyst of the events shown there. I understand why Janeway felt so protective about her and why she saw what she'd achieved with her as a triumph over the borg but to me this was not a strong enough reason to do what she did. I've always been of the opinion that the dead should be left in peace - death is an inevitable fact of life and we shouldn't interfere with it. Also, at Chakotay's grave she made it sound like it would be better for Chakotay if she brought Seven back ("I know it wasn't easy living all these years without her, Chakotay. But when I'm through, things might be better for all of us."), which again I found strange considering that Chakotay was also dead. If he had been alive at that point, I could have understood her perhaps a bit more but since he was also dead, the whole thing didn't make much sense to me.
So yes, I love Janeway but I don't really like Admiral Janeway. However, as I said before (I think), the whole ENDGAME thing gave us THE ETERNAL TIDE, for which I'm grateful to Kirsten Beyer because I thought it was a great novel.

And yes ... 15 more seasons of Voyager would have been great - I would even have felt grateful for just one more season. Since the actors are too old now, I could still see the continuation of the story in the form of animated cartoons with the original voices. However, it's highly unlikely it's ever going to happen.
At the same time, the relaunch books are great so it's actually nice to be part of the post-ENDGAME adventures of the VOY crew.


This is a very nice assumption on your part but I'm afraid I don't. There are some that I do but usually only in my native language (Hungarian). However, incredible as it might sound, when I want to learn English, I sometimes use Voyager for this purpose. This occasionally includes memorizing passages as well. I know Janeway's speech at the end of CARETAKER by heart, just like the doctor's closing lines in DARKLING. But these are the only two passages I know by heart in English.
For everything else, there's Chrissie's transcripts Site at
http://www.chakoteya.net/index.html

First things first your English is fantastic it really is, usually people who have learnt English as a second language leave nuances of there own language when writing or speaking but I couldn't tell you were a foreign at all. Nice to know Voyager helped you with that

Yes I'm in a similar boat it took me years to watch it from begining to end because when it first aired I wasn't born xD. It's a shame they came late to your country, I'm pleased you stuck through TNG to watch Voyager you clearly have enjoyed it

100% agree with you about people coming into forums and putting hateful stuff. I should probably just ignore it as well it just ruffles my feathers a little bit xD. And I didn't know VOY was the unliked star trek by big fans, it's a real shame I thibk it's amazing. However it is a bit different to the normal star trek? They are a crew but they are also a family and no other star trek show I've watched has had that family feeling to it. And I think thst might ruin it for some. But thst absolutely makes the show for me

Yes the void I throughly enjoyed that episode. I look forward to it on my rewatch.

I understand your opinion on Endgame, it was indeed rash and focused on seven (once again as you say). And yes haha even just one revive episode would be fantastic and yes I love the books I have read a few of them I'm planning to read some more over the summer holidays.

Simply your knowledge of Voyager is astounding. I hope to remember as much as you do in the future.

And yes your Pinterest account looks really good

 

[Thomas Eugene]

First things first your English is fantastic it really is, usually people who have learnt English as a second language leave nuances of there own language when writing or speaking but I couldn't tell you were a foreign at all. Nice to know Voyager helped you with that

Yes I'm in a similar boat it took me years to watch it from begining to end because when it first aired I wasn't born xD. It's a shame they came late to your country, I'm pleased you stuck through TNG to watch Voyager you clearly have enjoyed it

100% agree with you about people coming into forums and putting hateful stuff. I should probably just ignore it as well it just ruffles my feathers a little bit xD. And I didn't know VOY was the unliked star trek by big fans, it's a real shame I thibk it's amazing. However it is a bit different to the normal star trek? They are a crew but they are also a family and no other star trek show I've watched has had that family feeling to it. And I think thst might ruin it for some. But thst absolutely makes the show for me

Yes the void I throughly enjoyed that episode. I look forward to it on my rewatch.

I understand your opinion on Endgame, it was indeed rash and focused on seven (once again as you say). And yes haha even just one revive episode would be fantastic and yes I love the books I have read a few of them I'm planning to read some more over the summer holidays.

Simply your knowledge of Voyager is astounding. I hope to remember as much as you do in the future.

And yes your Pinterest account looks really good

Thanks for all your nice comments. I'm actually a teacher of English but I guess the key to my English is simply the fact that I enjoy learning languages even more than watching VOY . And I think this says it all knowing how much I love that show!

Which book are you on at the moment? As for me, I'm reading a book on Plato and Aristotle's difference of opinion at the moment but once I've finished it, I'd like to go back to sf and either read the next VOY book or a Star Wars novel (another franchise I like ).

PINTEREST is like paradise for people with an interest in visual art - thanks for liking my account.

Now, you and I have been discussing VOY at length and I hope this has not put off other people. After all, this is tomalak301's thread about how his rewatch is going and I hope he'll soon get back to telling us about what episode he is on at the moment. On the same note, I would like to invite anyone who is more knowledgeable than me on the topic of Star Trek to answer your question about the ways VOY is different from the other shows in the franchise. I'm simply not competent to answer that since the only other Trek show I know at least to some extent is DS9. It would be nice if people who agree with the statement that VOY is not as good as the other shows could answer that question, preferably without the attitude.

 

[tomalak301]

Now, you and I have been discussing VOY at length and I hope this has not put off other people. After all, this is tomalak301's thread about how his rewatch is going and I hope he'll soon get back to telling us about what episode he is on at the moment.

Things have gotten a little busy but I promise I will get back to it in time. I'm glad there's people participating in this thread, so don't feel like you're hogging the conversation.

 

[Archimago]

Thanks for all your nice comments. I'm actually a teacher of English but I guess the key to my English is simply the fact that I enjoy learning languages even more than watching VOY . And I think this says it all knowing how much I love that show!

Which book are you on at the moment? As for me, I'm reading a book on Plato and Aristotle's difference of opinion at the moment but once I've finished it, I'd like to go back to sf and either read the next VOY book or a Star Wars novel (another franchise I like ).

PINTEREST is like paradise for people with an interest in visual art - thanks for liking my account.

Now, you and I have been discussing VOY at length and I hope this has not put off other people. After all, this is tomalak301's thread about how his rewatch is going and I hope he'll soon get back to telling us about what episode he is on at the moment. On the same note, I would like to invite anyone who is more knowledgeable than me on the topic of Star Trek to answer your question about the ways VOY is different from the other shows in the franchise. I'm simply not competent to answer that since the only other Trek show I know at least to some extent is DS9. It would be nice if people who agree with the statement that VOY is not as good as the other shows could answer that question, preferably without the attitude.

Haha makes sense that you're an English teacher . I'm sure you're very good at it

I'm about 50 percent through full circle, I think thst may be the second or third book? I must say I throughly enjoy them, the way the characters speak is so much like the show! The authors really sum them up well. Unfortunately due to my school work load reading has taken a back foot which is a real shame as it's one thing I love to do. Are you a fan of philosophy then? As I think plato and aristotle were philosophers. Plato's theory of forms springs to mind but I might be making that up haha xD

And yes would be interesting to hear from someone who isn't a big fan of Voyager in the star trek franchise and why that is.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

Haha makes sense that you're an English teacher . I'm sure you're very good at it

I'm about 50 percent through full circle, I think thst may be the second or third book? I must say I throughly enjoy them, the way the characters speak is so much like the show! The authors really sum them up well. Unfortunately due to my school work load reading has taken a back foot which is a real shame as it's one thing I love to do. Are you a fan of philosophy then? As I think plato and aristotle were philosophers. Plato's theory of forms springs to mind but I might be making that up haha xD

And yes would be interesting to hear from someone who isn't a big fan of Voyager in the star trek franchise and why that is.

Thanks. I'm trying to be a good teacher ... (BTW, I teach adults, not children.)

Here's the order of the relaunch books:
1) Homecoming
2) The Farther Shore
3) Spirit Walk: Old Wounds
4) Sirit Walk: Enemy of My Enemy
[ 4a) - Before Dishonor - a TNG book which is required for the understnding of the events in the next books]
5) Full Circle
6) Unworthy
7) Children of the Storm
8) The Eternal Tide
9) Protectors
10) Acts of Contrition
11) Atonement
12) A Pocket Full of Lies

My book on Plato and Aristotle is exactly about the forms and related stuff. I'm not exctly a fan of philosophy but I do read books on the subject once in a while.

Yes, I hope that someone will join this thread and tell us about why Voyager is (supposed to be) worse than other series. It would be nice to have someone who can tell us about this in a matter-of-fact way without being too hostile towards the show.

 

[stardream]

I can't presume to speak for 'non Voyager fans' but I can speak to what I have seen during my days of roaming around message boards and reddit.

Back when Voyager aired it overlapped several seasons with DS9. Many fans were hoping we would get more dark and gritty serialized drama. They wanted the space ship to become more and more beat up (similar to what happened in the Year of Hell and Equinox). What they got was what some call 'TNG lite' meaning just that. TNG with a different crew in a different quadrant of space. It's important to note that the writers DID want to go in that direction but a lot of their ideas were nixed by the producers of the network. DS9's rating were falling and they believed it was the fault of the darker serialized nature of the show.

Their expectations weren't met. They got a little bit of what they wanted when Trek writer Ron Moore created the re-imagined Battle Star Galacitca (I am a fan of the first two season of that series but lost interest during the final two years). Now SOME of these fans have gone back and re-watched the series and admitted they had a bias going into it and have decided that while it may not be their favorite show it's not as bad as they first thought.

Many liked the writing of DS9 better. I admit I think DS9 is a better written show but for whatever reason I still like Voyager despite the continuity problems and episodic nature. Once again some of these fans have gone back and re-watched and also decided once again that the show wasn't that bad when it wasn't being compared to DS9. I fall into that category. I was neutral about Voyager because I watched it side by side with DS9 and thought DS9 the superior show but once I Voyager watched it on it's own I decided I quite liked it.

Then some people watched only the first season or so and gave up. Things changed around season 3. The producers changed, they changed the focus of the series and then seven of nine came alone and she was much more than eye candy. There are re-watchers out there who admit they gave up too quickly.

And some have watched, gave it a fair chance and decided it just wasn't for them. That's fine. I liked TNG at the time it aired but for whatever reason just don't re-watch it all that often. Not that I hate it or think it's terrible or anything, I just find it boring. I wish I liked it better but you can't force it.

Hope that explains some of why Voyager has so many detractors.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

I can't presume to speak for 'non Voyager fans' but I can speak to what I have seen during my days of roaming around message boards and reddit.

Back when Voyager aired it overlapped several seasons with DS9. Many fans were hoping we would get more dark and gritty serialized drama. They wanted the space ship to become more and more beat up (similar to what happened in the Year of Hell and Equinox). What they got was what some call 'TNG lite' meaning just that. TNG with a different crew in a different quadrant of space. It's important to note that the writers DID want to go in that direction but a lot of their ideas were nixed by the producers of the network. DS9's rating were falling and they believed it was the fault of the darker serialized nature of the show.

Their expectations weren't met. They got a little bit of what they wanted when Trek writer Ron Moore created the re-imagined Battle Star Galacitca (I am a fan of the first two season of that series but lost interest during the final two years). Now SOME of these fans have gone back and re-watched the series and admitted they had a bias going into it and have decided that while it may not be their favorite show it's not as bad as they first thought.

Many liked the writing of DS9 better. I admit I think DS9 is a better written show but for whatever reason I still like Voyager despite the continuity problems and episodic nature. Once again some of these fans have gone back and re-watched and also decided once again that the show wasn't that bad when it wasn't being compared to DS9. I fall into that category. I was neutral about Voyager because I watched it side by side with DS9 and thought DS9 the superior show but once I Voyager watched it on it's own I decided I quite liked it.

Then some people watched only the first season or so and gave up. Things changed around season 3. The producers changed, they changed the focus of the series and then seven of nine came alone and she was much more than eye candy. There are re-watchers out there who admit they gave up too quickly.

And some have watched, gave it a fair chance and decided it just wasn't for them. That's fine. I liked TNG at the time it aired but for whatever reason just don't re-watch it all that often. Not that I hate it or think it's terrible or anything, I just find it boring. I wish I liked it better but you can't force it.

Hope that explains some of why Voyager has so many detractors.

Thanks stardream.
Assuming it's true, what I find strange is that people had expectations in the first place at all. I mean if there is a new show, it is just natural that no one knows what attitude the showmakers are going to take: is the new show going to be like the prevoius one, is it going to be completely different from it, or is it going to contain a mixture of both old and new elements?
If a ship gets lost in space, they story can play out in one of many different ways. Two notable realizations of this scenario are demonstrated by the turn of events in Star Trek Voyager and StarGate Universe. VOY directors/producers decided on a lighter attitude to this premise and SGU directors/producers went for the dark-tone version.
Now, I must admit I don't like SGU but this has nothing to do with the tone. I don't like it because you get to hate the main character literally after ten minutes in the first episode and the more the story unfolds, the more you hate him (BTW excellently played by Robert Carlyle). If, however, they had decided on a main character I could identify with - just like in the case of Star Trek shows and any other StarGate shows - I would have liked it a lot more. DS9 has this pretty oppressive tone to it but compared to SGU, it's a lot more fun to watch because the main characters are a lot more loveable and so it's easier for me to relate to them. The reason I like DS9 less than VOY is that the family feeling that's present on VOY is missing from DS9 (or if it's there, it's there to a lot smaller extent).
My point is that no matter how dark or lighthearted a show is, I still find it good or bad depending on the actual stories and the atmosphere and characters the show creates when the stories are told. This is probably because I have no expectations beforehand - probably one of the reasons why I'm in the minority among the people who like SW: The Force Awakens.
Also, it seems likely to me that if Voyager had had a darker tone, a lot of people would have accused the show of emulating DS9 and would have complained about why the producers were not capable of coming up with something new.

Again, I find it strange that people should base their judgement on whether a show is episodic or contains story arcs. I think that if done properly, both can work. And again, all I can say is that even though I've seen DS9 twice already (all eps) the idea of liking it better because it has story arcs has never entered my mind. If there's a story I like, then it doesn't matter if it's just 45 mins or extends over several episodes. To me, although DS9 is full of story arcs, quite a few of the stories bore me whereas this is never the case with VOY (with the exception of THE HAUNTING OF DECK TWELVE). Actually, it's quite enlightening to see what kind of aspects are important for people. To me both of the abovementioned points are irrelevant - it seems though that I'm in the minority (again ).

BTW, I might be wrong (and please correct me if I am) but wasn't TNG also episodic? I'm just guessing, of course, but if it was, it is strange that it seems to be more popular with fans than VOY.

Another point I'd like to add is that in spite of all the things people don't like about VOY, it also had seven seasons just like the other shows. How is that possible then if it was that unpopular? In contrast, SGU had to be cancelled after two seasons ... and what was worse was that it was left unfinished. Strangely enough, though I didn't like it, I wouldn't have minded some more episodes - it was weird.
But then it seems that "Weird is part of our job" - to qoute the classics ... (Janeway in DEADLOCK)

And what's the deal with ENT? How bad was that? I personally can't watch it I find it so boring. But how did fans feel about that one? I mean it can't have been as good as VOY because it only survived four seasons. But apparently, it must have been better than SGU. Or am I wrong again?

 

[Sybok Was Wrong]

[QUOTE="Thomas Eugene, post: 1154
Yes, I hope that someone will join this thread and tell us about why Voyager is (supposed to be) worse than other series. It would be nice to have someone who can tell us about this in a matter-of-fact way without being too hostile towards the show.[/QUOTE]

It's NOT worse than the other series. It's a great series!


By the time of "Voyager", Trekkies were pretty spoiled by TNG, DS9, and the run of TOS features.

Oversaturation was taking effect. Burnout for some. Enough Trek to pick your favorite. Which meant it was OK to be critical of "Voyager" because you had all this other Trek to fall back on.

A lot of fans of TNG or DS9 want to have you believe those shows were better-by trying to enforce their opinions as fact.

Allow me to quickly share this: I got burned out on Trek during "Voyager" Season 2. That was '96. It took me until 2015 to finally give "Voyager" a fair shot- Amazon had the Complete series 70% off. That was too good to pass up!

Waiting 20 years to watch "Voyager" was soooo important to discard to whole "Star Trek Franchise-TM" thing of the 90's. I just finished 7 seasons of a really great series! No expectations. No comparing.

I think a lot of Trekkies still hold onto their old opinions/biases/attitude from the mid 90's. If you can shake that, and just focus on "Voyager" on its merits as a singular production - you'll watch a great show: great production values, intelligent scripts, likeable actors with chemistry. Humor that works- a Trek rarity.

I don't place expectations on the show and then get upset when the show doesn't implement my ideas of how it should go. Appreciate it for what it is.

I think most people who watched VOY were cool with it. Why would you watch a show you didnt like anyway? Thats mental! That small minority are on the Internet still trying to convince you VOY was bad. Mostly in an ajenda to create a popular opinion that TNG or DS9 was better, because that was their particular favorite.

Don't buy into it.

"Voyager" was a tv show. "Voyager" was a successful show, that entertained millions. Fact. Any other debate is geeky nonsense.

I thank Berman, Braga, Taylor, Piller, Mulgrew, Beltran, Russ, Wang, Dawson, Ryan, Lien, & Picardo for a job well done! I was sorry it ended.

 

[Archimago]

Some excellent responsors and I will respond but I'm away at the minute and don't have time! I am back tonight however see you then

 

[stardream]

I think a lot of Trekkies still hold onto their old opinions/biases/attitude from the mid 90's,

I admitted in my early post that I was one of them. I didn't actively hate it nor did I bash it at every given opportunity. I thought it was mediocre at best. I just was biased the first time I watched it and those biases stuck with me.

It wasn't until last year when we went through DS9 and TNG again that we decided to give Voyager another chance. I am not a big fan of the first two seasons and almost gave up at that point but stuck with it to the end and I was surprised at how much I liked it the second time around. It surprised me as much as anyone.

I enjoy watching DS9 but my reasons for that are entirely different from the reasons I watch Voyager. I don't hold both of them up to the same standards and I don't expect the crew of Voyager to react to a certain situation the way the crew from DS9 did. As far as I'm concerned there is no competition. They are both good in their own ways and I enjoy both of them.

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

I never thought Voyager was bad, nor did I really understand all the disdain towards it at the time. On the whole, the series is very enjoyable. On the macro level, I think Voyager suffered from being the 3rd production of what had become a too well trod formula established by TNG. Time and distance help with this greatly, which is why I think it fairs better now.

On a more micro level, I would say it's only real "sin" in terms of writing and storytelling is an increasing reliance on "TECHing the TECH" to resolve the plot of the week, but I can usually overlook that.

 

[tomalak301]

I never thought Voyager was bad, nor did I really understand all the disdain towards it at the time. On the whole, the series is very enjoyable. On the macro level, I think Voyager suffered from being the 3rd production of what had become a too well trod formula established by TNG. Time and distance help with this greatly, which is why I think it fairs better now.

On a more micro level, I would say it's only real "sin" in terms of writing and storytelling is an increasing reliance on "TECHing the TECH" to resolve the plot of the week, but I can usually overlook that.

Voyager was the series I watched as a teenager. For that, I love it, even though it's not my favorite series. And I promise I hope to get back to Voyager this week. Season 2 isn't my favorite season, and that first disc isn't the best disc in the world, but there's some good episodes here. And the quicker I get through Season 2, the quicker I will be at episodes like Future's End and Scorpion.

 

[tomalak301]

Said I would try to get back into Voyager this week and decided to watch the next one tonight:

The 37s

There's a lot to like about this episode, and there's a lot to scratch your head and say ummm as well. The scratching your head part has to do with the truck and how the heck it's still working 400 years later. Shouldn't the battery be corroded or just unfunctional? Didn't see an alien device attached to that thing either.

Other than that, like I was saying last week, I wish this was the season 1 finale. There is a sense of finality to it. be it they meet the 37s, there is a sense of whether or not the crew wants to stay and then it ends on an optimistic note with the journey continuing with a full ship crew. I also wish we would have gotten to see the cities or at least some art of the cities. To sell us on these cities and then not see it makes the stakes of the decision process kind of meaningless, doesn't it. If we had seen the cities, I think that scene when Janeway doesn't want to enter the cargo bay would have been that much better. Other than that, a very enjoyable episode and I loved when they landed the ship.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

Even if we never got to see those cities, the planet of the 37's seemed like a pleasant enough place to settle down on. At least, if I were ever offered to choose a planet from the Delta Quadrant, this one would be among the potential candidates. It's a shame we never found out what it was called.
I quite liked the idea that none of them wanted to stay. This is one of the many things why I find there's a certain sense of family about VOY which the other shows lack. And for me this seems like the logical decision. I mean if I were aboard Voyager, I would also want to continue the journey - if for no other reason because I'd feel I owned the crew and the Captain that much.
If there's literally nothing in space, can't that mean that no physical/chemical processes take place at all? If so, that could explain why the truck was still functioning.

So, your next ep is INITIATIONS. A Kazon episode.

 

[tomalak301]

Basically the Nog as a Kazon episode.

 

[tomalak301]

Initiations

This isn't a very memorable episode of Voyager, but it is still somewhat decent. We actually learned a lot about the Kazon in this episode, setting up the Kazon Arc (if you want to call it that) that goes throughout the season. I also noticed watching this episode that Chakotay really did spend a lot of time on Kazon ships this season, with this episode and Maneuvers. It's interesting that the former captain of the Maquis was always getting caught. Anyway, I also liked Eisenberg here, even though he was pretty much playing Nog on Voyager. Did really enjoy the scene in the cave about how Chakotay got his uniform.

Projections

Now this is an underrated episode of Voyager. This is episode 3 of the second season and I think it's where the Doctor and Picardo really come into his own and becomes one of the best characters on the series. Also, this sets up Barcley working with Lewis, which plays a bigger role in Season 6 and the pathfinder project. The question of person or hologram is an interesting one that is explored here, even if it was only for a few minutes. Did like the scenes with Kes being the Doctor's wife.

 

[Archimago]

Initiations

This isn't a very memorable episode of Voyager, but it is still somewhat decent. We actually learned a lot about the Kazon in this episode, setting up the Kazon Arc (if you want to call it that) that goes throughout the season. I also noticed watching this episode that Chakotay really did spend a lot of time on Kazon ships this season, with this episode and Maneuvers. It's interesting that the former captain of the Maquis was always getting caught. Anyway, I also liked Eisenberg here, even though he was pretty much playing Nog on Voyager. Did really enjoy the scene in the cave about how Chakotay got his uniform.

Projections

Now this is an underrated episode of Voyager. This is episode 3 of the second season and I think it's where the Doctor and Picardo really come into his own and becomes one of the best characters on the series. Also, this sets up Barcley working with Lewis, which plays a bigger role in Season 6 and the pathfinder project. The question of person or hologram is an interesting one that is explored here, even if it was only for a few minutes. Did like the scenes with Kes being the Doctor's wife.

So many posts to reply to sorry I've been rather neglecting, my real exams are in 3 weeks and I'm super busy revising!

I quite like intiations as you said it sets up the Kazon Arc, and often people tell me they don't like chakotay episodes or they're the weaker episodes of a season. Buy for me I really chakotay shined this episode, and the sacrifice he was willing to make was very honourable which fit the episode nicely.

I straight up love projections! The Doctor is my favorite character and this episode is absolutely pivotal in his development! It's very enjoyable to watch, and the ethical debate he is having In his head is very difficult to predict, and when you think he is back it happens again. I rather enjoyed the Kes + doctor scene!

 

[Archimago]

Also it's very interesting to hear why trekkies aren't big fans of it. So it was more the timing of the show rather than the show itself. And people's preconceptions of what they wanted it to be compared to what it was.

And then interestingly enough people started to enjoy it more on rewatch, where they were watching it apart from other series which really let's you appreciate the family feel Imo.

Also forgot to mention the 37s above I quite like thst episode and it was interesting to see the old vs new gap in technology and how they reacted. Does anyone else think it would of been really interesting to keep amelia airheart? I particularly like the end of the episode I think that just sums up Voyager as a family

 

[stardream]

Initiations is also one episode where we see Paris in command of the ship. I keep seeing people say that Paris was never left in command when he was. I think the reason they forget is because he is overshadowed by Neelix using his knowledge of the Kazon to play them.

I liked seeing Barkley in Projects. It lets us know what he has been up to since we last saw him but it irritates me a bit when they seemed to have forgotten who he was in Pathfinder.