Rewatching "The High Ground"

[sonak]

So you are, for some reason, completely discounting prisons entirely, even though we've heard of them several times, and seen one of them at least once.

I'm simply acknowledging that they amount to torture. And significantly, that they amount to much more severe torture for Yuta than they would for a human being. In fact, a prison would be much less humane a fate for Yuta than death by bludgeoning, because the latter would only take, oh, three hours of suffering max.

A sentient being who does not deserve to be treated like a person?

Few in Star Trek do. You have to abide to human standards of existence to get accepted as a person there. From the very first aired episode on, it has been clear that there's no mercy for sapient vampires, and Yuta obviously is one.

And now you are, for some bizarre reason, equating a 24th century Federation prison as "torture".

All imprisonment is torture - that's its sole function, to make the victim suffer from freedom deprivation and see the error of his ways. The sometimes quoted secondary function of keeping the victim temporarily out of further mischief amounts to basically nothing unless the sentence is life or some sort of rehabilitation eventually takes place. We hear of both these things being true in the Trek universe (life spent at Elba II, or then six-month sentences for things like attempted genocide, followed by apparent 100% recovery rate for the specific crime-illnesses) - but only for people who are not Yuta. She's not curable, and life spent not murdering would be constant torture for her.

Timo Saloniemi

your nonsense is very amusing to read. Please continue.

 

[R. Star]

^

I have often wondered if Timo is serious about some of the stuff he throws out there or is just joking somehow.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

With phrases like "life spent not murdering", who knows.

Still, a devil's advocate position is always welcome.

 

[Timo]

It's just that Star Trek is supposed to be science fiction (at least on some level), but discussion about it typically revolves purely around the soap opera aspects of it. For example this very thread was started because the act of gunning down somebody was pondered from the 21st century point of view, as if Sergeant Devos of the PSNI had pointed her service revolver at an IRA terrorist - while the interesting thing about Cyril Finn's death, morals-wise and drama-wise, was the pseudotechnological nature of the raygun used, i.e. did it have a stun setting or not?

Of course, there's duality to this: the stories are supposed to be about this world, and the scifi element is just a distraction. But I'm chiefly interested in the story logic as established by the scifi setting, not in the story logic as intended despite the conflicting demands of the setting.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tiberius]

So you are, for some reason, completely discounting prisons entirely, even though we've heard of them several times, and seen one of them at least once.

I'm simply acknowledging that they amount to torture. And significantly, that they amount to much more severe torture for Yuta than they would for a human being. In fact, a prison would be much less humane a fate for Yuta than death by bludgeoning, because the latter would only take, oh, three hours of suffering max.

Well, if you're ever arrested, I'll make sure to recommend that the judge sentences death rather than imprisonment.

A sentient being who does not deserve to be treated like a person?

Few in Star Trek do. You have to abide to human standards of existence to get accepted as a person there. From the very first aired episode on, it has been clear that there's no mercy for sapient vampires, and Yuta obviously is one.

Do you make any sense to yourself?

And now you are, for some bizarre reason, equating a 24th century Federation prison as "torture".

All imprisonment is torture - that's its sole function, to make the victim suffer from freedom deprivation and see the error of his ways. The sometimes quoted secondary function of keeping the victim temporarily out of further mischief amounts to basically nothing unless the sentence is life or some sort of rehabilitation eventually takes place. We hear of both these things being true in the Trek universe (life spent at Elba II, or then six-month sentences for things like attempted genocide, followed by apparent 100% recovery rate for the specific crime-illnesses) - but only for people who are not Yuta. She's not curable, and life spent not murdering would be constant torture for her.

Timo Saloniemi

Again, no sense is made.

I know you like trying to see all sides, but really, you're straining all credibility here...

 

[Timo]

Just your comprehension skills, is all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tiberius]

You suggesting that I got it wrong when I thought that you were saying that executing a criminal is better than imprisoning them?

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

Enough of the - umm - debate, guys.

 

[Lynx]

The funny thing is that I actually watched both those episodes last week and was thinking the same.

I never really understood why he killed Yuta. he could just have stunned her. Was he p***ed off that she wasn't what he hoped and expected, that the girl he actually had strong feelings for turned out to be a ruthless killer, obsessed with the clan war revenge thing? Or was Yuta that dangerous that it was necessary to eliminate her?

As for Finn and "The High Ground", there were lots of interesting things in that plot. Very thought-provoking and one of my favorite TNG episodes.

 

[Unicron]

I think the main thing was dramatic license, and I've sometimes wondered whether Yuta's modifications would have made it impossible for her to pursue a normal life if she'd been successful. If her sole purpose was to be a weapon of vengeance, maybe there were no other allowances or the Trilestas simply didn't have the means to create them.

 

[Rarewolf]

Yuta is a pretty good match for the Borg, a gift that keeps on giving unless put down for good.

Any Borg drone can be rehabilitated.

They might be mentally scared for life, but again you could say the same of any victim.