Revisiting Star Trek Continues...

[The Salt Umpire]

It gets murky I think.

Way back in the '70s between TOS and TMP a lot of fans deferred to material in print to "fill in the gaps" of TOS' backstory and history. For a long time (and for some of us still ) the details James Blish had in his adaptation of "Balance Of Terror" were accepted as fact in terms of what happened during the Earth/Romulan War. Stuff found in Franz Joseph's blueprints and technical manual, as well as other publications, were accepted as gospel even though any potential future productions were certainly not beholden to them. So it's not surprising that some fans deferred to backstory details Gene Roddenberry put in his novelization of TMP as effectively canon even if none of it appeared in the film itself.

To that end it's not all that surprising the producers of STC just might defer to the TMP novelization given it was written by Roddenberry himself and thus giving it a measure of authenticity no other published work might have.

That's how it was for me. You had the Blish and Foster serializations, the books written by Gerrold and others, the Technical Manual, a slow drip-drip of Trek fan and professionally written fiction, occasional Trek magazine articles and the Official Star Trek Trivia Quiz.

All we knew were in these pages.

Agreed and as a fan film series, it's pretty high up.

But...

That is totally real from a lot of fans and extremely ridiculous. It's not nearly on that level.

It's akin to the book of mormon vs the bible.

 

[Richard Baker]

I think STC did a very impressive job creating new stories to give us the additional Trek we were denied with cancellation. I know it is not perfect and can be torn apart easily, that is also true with every other iteration of the franchise as well. A fan series is a group effort of mostly non-professional people trying their best to give us something special, the shows are not perfect but I do enjoy watching them

 

[Tuskin38]

Chris Doohan also ended up voicing Scotty in an officially licenced Star Trek game, Star Trek Online.

STO also shares a couple other actors from STC, Vic (before he was replaced due to obvious reasons) played a TOS Era Starfleet Captain plus his Kelvin Timeline counterpart, and Kipleigh Brown, who voices a reoccurring character in the game.

Edit: Oh, Michele Specht also has voice roles in the game.

 

[CetiAlphanEel]

Loved STC but it's hard to rewatch knowing what Vic did

 

[Ssosmcin]

I think STC did a very impressive job creating new stories to give us the additional Trek we were denied with cancellation. I know it is not perfect and can be torn apart easily, that is also true with every other iteration of the franchise as well. A fan series is a group effort of mostly non-professional people trying their best to give us something special, the shows are not perfect but I do enjoy watching them

Oh I'm totally fine with it existing and it was a fun effort to recreate the feel of the original series. But I agree with @Warped9: they broke their own stated rule right out of the gate. The intention that thy were making season 4 as if the show never got cancelled. From 1969-70. Man, I'm a stickler for that stuff. If you wanna pretend your show takes place at that time, you need to follow the rules and examples of the show you're aping. Which means:

1. Almost no sequels. I. Mudd was the only exception in the original series. So that kills the first two episodes and the one where Kirk deals with memories of his old dead girlfriends from prior seasons.

2. You wouldn't have TNG level technology, like a realistic holodeck with Paladin from Have Gun Will Travel so real you couldn't tell the difference. A technology not improved upon for another 78 years apparently.

3. You wouldn't have a finale that's a two parter most likely, but say it were two parts, it wouldn't follow up on characters and concepts not seen since the pilot episode which didn't even get a network rerun. That finale wouldn't have music from the movies or TMP uniforms for that matter. There'd be no Kolinahr for Spock.

Honestly, the series would have just ended in 1970 with no Very Special Episode, but okay, allowing for one, it would probably be a stand alone, save a civilization one last time before ending the mission sort of thing. TV worked differently then. Shows just ended.

Is that fun for a fan project? Hells to the no. I get why they did it. But whenever one of these "continue TOS" fan series goes off model into pulling from the movies and such, I become a downy clowny. New Voyages did that with "In Harm's Way." Film music cues and such. Which was a fun fan "kitchen sink" thrill ride otherwise. But they did their own thing.

That's why Starship Exeter and Farragut are more fun for me. They are original characters and I don't have a mental restriction in place.

 

[Warped9]

If you wanna pretend your show takes place at that time, you need to follow the rules and examples of the show you're aping. Which means:

1. Almost no sequels. I. Mudd was the only exception in the original series. So that kills the first two episodes and the one where Kirk deals with memories of his old dead girlfriends from prior seasons.

2. You wouldn't have TNG level technology, like a realistic holodeck with Paladin from Have Gun Will Travel so real you couldn't tell the difference. A technology not improved upon for another 78 years apparently.

3. You wouldn't have a finale that's a two parter most likely, but say it were two parts, it wouldn't follow up on characters and concepts not seen since the pilot episode which didn't even get a network rerun. That finale wouldn't have music from the movies or TMP uniforms for that matter. There'd be no Kolinahr for Spock.

Honestly, the series would have just ended in 1970 with no Very Special Episode, but okay, allowing for one, it would probably be a stand alone, save a civilization one last time before ending the mission sort of thing. TV worked differently then. Shows just ended.

Seriously if they had just created stories that felt like decent authentic feeling TOS episodes yet without all the callouts and tie-ins to later productions and without the TNG style technobabble we would have thought it was Christmas with the greatest surprise under the tree. And whats sad is that STC came close a few times with some of their episodes. I’ve already ranked them upthread so I won’t go through it again, but there are a few that with a little editing and rewrite I could say, “Hell, yeah, I could see them doing this in TOS. In a hypothetical fourth season there are some things TOS could, and arguably should, have done that would have added even more texture and flavour to the TOS universe.
- Commodore Gray was great. Show us a woman starship captain, even if it’s just a cameo. In “Embrace The Winds” make Garrett an actual starship captain in hot water with no one questioning her just because she’s a woman.
- Gave us an alien or two as Starfleet personnel. Maybe another Vulcan (although we already know about the Intrepid) or better yet how about an Andorian as a Starfleet Commodore or Admiral. In fairness STC did give Admiral Stom so kudos to them for that.
- Even in STC not once did we hear, “Uhura, you have the con.”
- Someone in the workshop pull off an AMT kitbash or something to show us a different class of Starfleet vessel.
- Loved seeing Dr. MBenga return in STC and TOS could certainly have done that since we already saw MBenga twice in TOS.

In my Unseen TOS project in the Arts forum I have a rule I try hard to stick to: I try to ignore any resources and influences post 1969. What could they have come up with given a little extra time and money? For a fan series like STC my rule would have been: story wise what could they most likely have done if they had gotten one more season? STC came really close on a few occasions, and some of the others might have been salvaged with some rewriting.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

That's the aim of my TOS (and other series) pitch games, too: create something that sounds like what would have been done back then, complete with titles they would have been able to think of and drawn from inspirations they would have used.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Did the makers of STC actually say they were gonna abide by rules they ultimately broke? That’s kinda funny if that’s the case. I guess fans just can’t help themselves (look at the fourth season of ENTERPRISE).

Oh I'm totally fine with it existing and it was a fun effort to recreate the feel of the original series. But I agree with @Warped9: they broke their own stated rule right out of the gate. The intention that thy were making season 4 as if the show never got cancelled. From 1969-70. Man, I'm a stickler for that stuff. If you wanna pretend your show takes place at that time, you need to follow the rules and examples of the show you're aping. Which means:

2. You wouldn't have TNG level technology, like a realistic holodeck with Paladin from Have Gun Will Travel so real you couldn't tell the difference. A technology not improved upon for another 78 years apparently.

To be fair, the TOS writers were already pitching the idea of introducing a holodeck in during S3, they just never got around to making an actual story centered on that. That’s how it found its way in TAS. HOWEVER, what felt very unlike TOS was that they present it in the teaser then proceed to never actually get back to that, which essentially makes it a very pointless opening bit. Those type of self contained non sequitur teasers were just not a thing in Trek before the Rick Berman era started indulging in that, typically done when an episode runs short and they gotta add light character stuff. If such an opening existed in a TOS episode it would eventually circle back to that holodeck, maybe have Apollo walk in on holographic worshippers and it takes him some time to realize something is off, which buys the crew time.

If I were to make a S4, I’d probably wanna go deep into the Roddenberry archives looking for unused drafts for inspiration, assuming such documents exist. At least just examine what might have been promising and expand on that. If you really wanna make a S4, look into the ideas and concepts the writers of that show were actually contemplating. The holodeck was right there, but it just ended up being a silly meta moment with some weird crossover to another show. Also, Doug Drexler can’t save his life to monologue about that gun. Woof!

3. You wouldn't have a finale that's a two parter most likely, but say it were two parts, it wouldn't follow up on characters and concepts not seen since the pilot episode which didn't even get a network rerun. That finale wouldn't have music from the movies or TMP uniforms for that matter. There'd be no Kolinahr for Spock.

Honestly, the series would have just ended in 1970 with no Very Special Episode, but okay, allowing for one, it would probably be a stand alone, save a civilization one last time before ending the mission sort of thing. TV worked differently then. Shows just ended.

I always wondered if TOS would have gotten a proper finale had the show actually lasted several more seasons into the 70s. But that’s a hypothetical long running show that found a larger audience down the line. Certainly wouldn’t be what you describe of STC. Heck, they might have just done it as another standalone episode but it happens to end with Kirk entering his final log “so concludes our five year mission, Kirk out.”

 

[Firebird]

STC doing their own take/evolution beyond TOS never bothered me. I was never looking for or expecting a slavish reproduction of 1969. I enjoyed the series for what it was, and I tend to consider it the fifth season of TOS like TAS is the fourth in my head-canon.

 

[Ssosmcin]

STC doing their own take/evolution beyond TOS never bothered me. I was never looking for or expecting a slavish reproduction of 1969. I enjoyed the series for what it was, and I tend to consider it the fifth season of TOS like TAS is the fourth in my head-canon.

It only bothered me because that's what they said they were gonna do. Which was such a cool idea.

To be fair, the TOS writers were already pitching the idea of introducing a holodeck in during S3, they just never got around to making an actual story centered on that. That’s how it found its way in TAS. HOWEVER, what felt very unlike TOS was that they present it in the teaser then proceed to never actually get back to that, which essentially makes it a very pointless opening bit. Those type of self contained non sequitur teasers were just not a thing in Trek before the Rick Berman era started indulging in that, typically done when an episode runs short and they gotta add light character stuff. If such an opening existed in a TOS episode it would eventually circle back to that holodeck, maybe have Apollo walk in on holographic worshippers and it takes him some time to realize something is off, which buys the crew time.

I know they planned on something like that but it didn't make the original series and TNG shows us the technology that looks the same as 78 years earlier. Dang thing screwed up every time they used it.

Best to just keep it out of TOS era stuff. Even the movies left it alone.

I always wondered if TOS would have gotten a proper finale had the show actually lasted several more seasons into the 70s. But that’s a hypothetical long running show that found a larger audience down the line. Certainly wouldn’t be what you describe of STC. Heck, they might have just done it as another standalone episode but it happens to end with Kirk entering his final log “so concludes our five year mission, Kirk out.”

Yeah I doubt there'd have been some grande finale. Mannix and Mission Impossible just ended after 7 years. Most shows just stopped.

Finales tended to hurt syndication runs, or so it was claimed. Keeping shows open ended allowed stations to run series from any point.

 

[Warped9]

The problem with having a TOS era holodeck is that you have the Federation able to create convincing illusions albeit through technology. This makes it a little hard for our crew to be so amazed with aliens having the power of illusion only often through natural ability rather than technology.

 

[Richard Baker]

One thing I think STC did better that the TOS Remastered was the exterior shots of the Enterprise.
Instead of making the ship "full size" in the computer then moving a virtual camera around it, Drexler scaled the ship to match the original filming miniature, then created virtual lenses which mimicked the original lenses used.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

As with most fanfilms, the scripts are its Achilles Heel.

Objection! KITUMBA!

 

[MakeshiftPython]

It only bothered me because that's what they said they were gonna do. Which was such a cool idea.

I know they planned on something like that but it didn't make the original series and TNG shows us the technology that looks the same as 78 years earlier. Dang thing screwed up every time they used it.

Best to just keep it out of TOS era stuff. Even the movies left it alone.

Then I'm a little confused. This production was being run (or so it was claimed) under the conceit of what might have been produced as a fourth season back in 1969-1970. So you could essentially just ignore all the films* and shows that came after and not worry about contradicting them. So why worry about TNG's own canon?

*=I understand they pretty much ignore that towards the end, I saw Vic in an Admiral uniform.

Yeah I doubt there'd have been some grande finale. Mannix and Mission Impossible just ended after 7 years. Most shows just stopped.

Finales tended to hurt syndication runs, or so it was claimed. Keeping shows open ended allowed stations to run series from any point.

Was it true that TV stations would run shows in whatever random order they liked? I honestly can't recall TV stations running episodes in such a haphazard order. I know Rick Berman would tell that to the writers in order to discourage continuity. I've read about execs griping over how THE FUGITIVE finale might possibly destroy its syndication package, but it struck me as execs just being scared of doing something unprecedented. Their mentality being "why do something different from how we always made money?"

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Air order of TOS in our market during early 1970s syndication was effectively random. One reason was that it had no reliable time slot. Sometimes it was late Saturday night/early Sunday morning, 1AM. Sometimes it was Saturday afternoon. For a while, it was on weekday afternoons.

 

[Just a Bill]

I also wonder if in syndication the episodes were sometimes aired with uneven frequency. Like, if a local affiliate had an employee who was a fan and familiar with the episodes, might they bias the airings to show the well-liked ones more frequently, and the "rough" and/or more "thinky" ones less frequently (or in worse time slots)?

For example, I have a feeling that in childhood I saw Tribbles and City quite a bit more often than Eden and Empath. And I had been watching for quite a while before I ever saw Where No Man, although that could have been sheer luck of the draw, of course. (Either way, it astounded my little-kid brain with its quasi-alternate-universe uniforms and ship interiors, and I yelled to the kitchen to alert my mom to the amazing thing taking place. I guess I'm lucky The Cage wasn't available as a separate episode in those days!)

 

[Maurice]

Objection! KITUMBA!

Which was a retooled pro script. Objection overruled.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Then I'm a little confused. This production was being run (or so it was claimed) under the conceit of what might have been produced as a fourth season back in 1969-1970. So you could essentially just ignore all the films* and shows that came after and not worry about contradicting them. So why worry about TNG's own canon?

I'm not per se, but TNG exists. It existed before STC so it set up what was possible and when. Sure they could have invented a "rec room" that functions like a holodeck in the original series, but they didn't and - after the animated series - left it for TNG.

I mean, someone could have potentially invented transwarp drive in an episode of season 4, but they didn't and it was introduced in Star Trek III as brand new. So that would be off limits.

Same with terminology. They didn't mention replicators or "away teams" because those were TNG invented terms TOS had "food synthesizers" and "landing parties."

So if something was invented and/or perfected later, don't invent it or making it close to something that didn't actually appear canonically until 78 in-universe years later (SNW retcons notwithstanding).

 

[The Salt Umpire]

A local station, after much hullabaloo and advertising, started with Adonais (instead of WNMHGB or Trap), so that's the first TOS I saw. They definitely didn't start at season 1.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

What a curious choice! I ask because I got into Trek in 1994 when I was just about 7 years old, and syndicated reruns of shows by that time, at least in my area, were fairly consistent in sticking to airdate order. I don't mean just TOS, but I remember catching weekday afternoon airings of TNG. While brand new episodes of TNG would air at Mondays at 9pm, weekday afternoons would run older episodes, and I remember catching what were clearly early episodes because of those spandex uniforms. I had already gotten used to their two piece mandarin collars in the latest episodes, so it was kind of a trip to see these different unis with the colored stripes going over their collarbones.

My station was KCOP-13 from the Los Angeles area. The cool thing was they always tried to keep TNG and DS9 on primetime slots because they were able to compete with the big networks. It eventually became a UPN station.