Revisiting 'Day of The Doctor"

[Turtletrekker]

As some of you may recall as I've mentioned it before, my introduction to Who was the 50th aniverssary show, "The Day of the Doctor". It was an amazing viewing experience that sold me on both the concept and the history of the show. Even as a complete rookie, I felt enthralled by the gathering of the Doctors to save Gallifrey at the end.

As I haven't lived my life in complete isolation, I did manage to get some of the jokes ("Nice scarf"), but mostly DotD was my cold introduction to the mythos. Yes, I began at the end (as this was before any Capaldi had aired). River Song would be proud.

Since then, I've immersed myself as much as time allows in in both new and classic shows, and thanks to the streaming service available from Hulu Plus and Netflix, I've had a good variety of classic Who to watch. Some episode that weren't available to stream, I just bought. I even bought "The War Games" on old school video tape just to see Patrick Troughton's last adventure. I had to borrow a VCR! I've even dabbled slightly into Big Finish, but with so much live Who yet to watch, and so little time...

But the journey has finally come full circle, and I re-watched "Day of the Doctor" last night, but this time as a genuine fan of the show. This time, I got so much more out of the little details. The jokes that went straight over my head the first time (Ten: "You've redecorated! I don't like it." Eleven: "Oh, you never do!"), to the historical nods (especially in the Black Archive, such as the board with the pics of old companions), and even stuff that I was only aware because of discussions here on the BBS, such as the UNIT dating controversies ("70s or 80s, depending on the dating protocol". Brilliant!) all made my second viewing as "new" as my first.

Oh, but the best part (of course!) was the gathering of the Doctors at the last battle. I felt "enthralled" by the sequence as a rookie, but this time... Awestruck. The first time through, it was more of an abstract thing ("Oh, look at all the Doctors"), but this time hearing the First Doctor approach, "Warning the War Council of Gallifrey, this is the Doctor!" sent shivers down my spine, even though I knew it couldn't be William Hartnell delivering the lines. This time I knew all of the Doctors, the actors, and their "number". I recognized their voices (Only Sylvester McCoy's Doctor rolls an "R" like that!), I must've watched the sequence half a dozen times, giggling like a fan boy.

In the end, I have to rate it a one of my favorite episodes of television of all time. It has served me as both introduction and retrospective, and introduced me to a franchise that frankly should have paid a lot more attention to a lot sooner.

 

[Shazam!]

"Warning the War Council of Gallifrey, this is the Doctor!"

'Calling' isn't it?

I rewatched it recently as well and I remember liking it that little bit more. At the time, I was disappointed at no McGann, Eccleston etc but it totally stands up as a 'special' episode if not quite the anniversary blow out I was hoping for.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Subtitles say "Warning".

It's funny. Despite the fact he is talking about dreams in the final scene, I totally didn't realize at the time that the scene was a dream. I totally thought that all 13 Doctors were just chilling together checking out Gallifrey.

 

[The Wormhole]

In all honesty, I find Day of the Doctor a bit of a disappointment. To me, the trick to enjoying it is to get the right atmosphere going. Yes, a special time, live worldwide simulcast with a year's worth of build up certainly put me in the right frame of mind to shut my brain off and enjoy, but on rewatches I feel cold and empty watching it. In the end, it's just hype covering a typical Moffat story. Timey-wimey shenanigans, imagery of other Doctors, children being an important plot point, deaths being negated and everybody lives. We've been seeing this stuff in Moffat scripts going back to The Empty Child story and seeing it all in DotD just felt old and done.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

In all honesty, I find Day of the Doctor a bit of a disappointment. To me, the trick to enjoying it is to get the right atmosphere going. Yes, a special time, live worldwide simulcast with a year's worth of build up certainly put me in the right frame of mind to shut my brain off and enjoy, but on rewatches I feel cold and empty watching it.

Wow. That is exactly my feeling on "Day of the Doctor." As a communal activity on November 23rd and the follow Monday, I loved it. Afterwards, on rewatch, though... Grrr.

There are some things that I love, like the 10th and 11th Doctors meeting one another and their relationship. I love the War Doctor. But as a story, it falls apart for me about the point where we get to the three Doctors in the barn. The strange, hallucinatory sequence doesn't work for me, and what happens after feels like it belongs in a different episode entirely to the previous forty minutes.

In the end, it's just hype covering a typical Moffat story. Timey-wimey shenanigans, imagery of other Doctors, children being an important plot point, deaths being negated and everybody lives. We've been seeing this stuff in Moffat scripts going back to The Empty Child story and seeing it all in DotD just felt old and done.

QFT.

It's a story that doesn't withstand a lot of scrutiny; like a Star Trek: Voyager episode, I have to turn off my brain to watch it.

 

[Starkers]

Its funny, I watched it again just a couple of weeks ago and still love it.

Re it using tropes going back all the way to The Empty Child... I don't recall any timey wimey stuff in that, not do I recall imagery of other Doctors, in fact I don't recall imagery of previous Doctors playing any kind of part until The Eleventh Hour, and let's be honest if there hadn't been imagery of other Doctors in an episode celebrating 50 years of 11 different Doctors it would have been a bit strange and Moffat would have been strung up by a torch weilding mob (and by that I mean a bigger torch weilding mob than the one usually after him).

As for children playing a plot point? That's a curious one. This isn't like The Empty Child, or The Girl in the Fireplace or anything Pond related where a single child or a group of children play a vital part of the story, and have characters/names/lines. In this instance we're talking soley about the Doctor(s) regretting the deaths of the millions of children that had been on Galifrey when he torched it?

Timey wimey and everybody lives I'll give you, but the other bits seem like points being stretched to breaking point to make a jibe at Moffat.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I like it a lot, still, but it definitely isn't the 50th anniversary story it should've been. Like many noted at the time, it feels like an 8th anniversary more than anything.

And while John Hurt is great, I just can't stand the Warrior. I can't help but wish McGann was approached instead. It just makes so much more sense - but, Moffat ego above all.

 

[Starkers]

But he was approached...

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Do you like pretending not getting what my point is?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

^ I believe the role of the Hurt-Doctor was supposed to be played by Eccleston, but when Chris didn't come back, Moffat wrote in a retcon Doctor.

Speaking of Day of the Doctor, has anyone seen this?

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-still-haunted-by-guilt-over-reversing-time-war-outcome-73938.htm


Moffat's "guilt" over undoing the Time War? Idk what he has to feel guilty for barring undoing most of the drama from RTD, Julie Gardner and Phil Collinson injected into the series during their run. UNLESS, Moffat only revived Galifrey to satisfy his own ambitions BUT has no plans to actually visit the planet or doing anything constructive with it. Moffat wouldn't do that, would he?

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Ugh, don't we all know Eccleston was approached. Do you think I don't know that?

And I believe Moffat said that finding Gallifrey could be an undercurrent storyline for the next 50 years. Like the Doctor's Odyssey, you know?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Ugh, don't we all know Eccleston was approached. Do you think I don't know that?

And I believe Moffat said that finding Gallifrey could be an undercurrent storyline for the next 50 years. Like the Doctor's Odyssey, you know?

Or until Moffat leaves after series 9.

It's not like there is nothing that can't be done with Galifrey.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Personally, they better stay hidden. The best decision of the return was to minimize Gallifrey as much as they did. Plus, I like the mystery of where and how it can exist still.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

They could always do the "Daleks in the Medusa Cascade" thing and have Gallifrey a few seconds out of synch with the universe, only sightly different.

 

[Kelso]

"Day of the Doctor" is magnificent.

 

[The Wormhole]

Its funny, I watched it again just a couple of weeks ago and still love it.

Re it using tropes going back all the way to The Empty Child... I don't recall any timey wimey stuff in that, not do I recall imagery of other Doctors, in fact I don't recall imagery of previous Doctors playing any kind of part until The Eleventh Hour, and let's be honest if there hadn't been imagery of other Doctors in an episode celebrating 50 years of 11 different Doctors it would have been a bit strange and Moffat would have been strung up by a torch weilding mob (and by that I mean a bigger torch weilding mob than the one usually after him).

As for children playing a plot point? That's a curious one. This isn't like The Empty Child, or The Girl in the Fireplace or anything Pond related where a single child or a group of children play a vital part of the story, and have characters/names/lines. In this instance we're talking soley about the Doctor(s) regretting the deaths of the millions of children that had been on Galifrey when he torched it?

Timey wimey and everybody lives I'll give you, but the other bits seem like points being stretched to breaking point to make a jibe at Moffat.

I exaggerated a bit, I admit. While it's true most of the imager of previous Doctors we've seen in the modern era comes from scripts from other writers, nearly all modern episodes to feature imagery of the previous Doctors does come from the Moffat era. Only two episodes feature classic Doctors which Moffat had no involvement in, as either writer or showrunner, Human Nature and The Next Doctor.

And considering the whole decision to save Gallifrey is the result of the Moment urging the Doctor to "think of the children" just reminded me of the fact that children are a plot point of a lot of Moffat stories. Though I'll concede RTD also made children a focal point of stories quite frequently, even on Torchwood.

^ I believe the role of the Hurt-Doctor was supposed to be played by Eccleston, but when Chris didn't come back, Moffat wrote in a retcon Doctor.

Well, yes, we all know to story of DotD was planned with Eccleston in mind and when he said no Moffat went and pulled out his idea for a forgotten Doctor. Which wasn't strictly necessary, the Eighth Doctor could have very easily been inserted into the story with no changes necessary at all. The only downside is we wouldn't have gotten Night of the Doctor (which really was superb, IMO) but I think this would have been an acceptable trade-off.

I was hoping to avoid the subject of the War Doctor, as that is itself a loaded issue, but since he's been brought into the discussion I'll say that as much as I like John Hurt and his performance as the Doctor, it is a bit of a squandered opportunity all the same. It's not that I'm against the idea of revealing the existence of a forgotten Doctor (I'm not) and I could probably get used to the idea the Time War was fought by someone other than the Doctor I had thought (I always assumed it to be the Eighth, even though RTD says he intended it to be the Ninth).

The main problem is the War Doctor is just a substitute for Eccleston, and not much of an effort is made to hide this. This new forgotten Doctor is a warrior haunted by the war he's been fighting and the tragic decision he must make to end it. While Eccleston was a warrior haunted by the war he had been fighting and the tragic decision he made to end it. It doesn't help they both wear leather jackets, and Moffat even left in a bit meant to showcase Eccleston's prominent ears for fuck's sake. And having the Moment taking on Rose's form was obviously meant to get Eccleston and Billie Piper together again.

True with this kind of writing, even using Paul McGann would still have come off as an obvious Eccleston substitute, but at least we'd be using an actual Doctor, and giving the one who's had the short end of the stick for over 15 years his chance in the spotlight. And the idea of a forgotten Doctor could be held in reserve for when an actual story properly utilizing the concept came along.

Speaking of Day of the Doctor, has anyone seen this?

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/moffat-still-haunted-by-guilt-over-reversing-time-war-outcome-73938.htm


Moffat's "guilt" over undoing the Time War? Idk what he has to feel guilty for barring undoing most of the drama from RTD, Julie Gardner and Phil Collinson injected into the series during their run. UNLESS, Moffat only revived Galifrey to satisfy his own ambitions BUT has no plans to actually visit the planet or doing anything constructive with it. Moffat wouldn't do that, would he?

According to The Writer's Tale, Moffat has about as much disdain for the Time Lords as RTD had, making it surprising he chose to restore Gallifrey for Day of the Doctor. So, no it really wouldn't surprise me if he has no real plans for revisiting Gallifrey and the Time Lords (beyond Missy, of course).

It's not like there is nothing that can't be done with Galifrey.

As much as I enjoy classic era Gallifrey-centred stories like The Deadly Assassin or even Trial of a Time Lord, as argument can be made that Gallifrey and the Time Lords are more interesting in their absence.

 

[Captaindemotion]

While I'd like to have seen either McGann or Eccleston instead of the War Doctor, I still really like DOTD. For me, it's easily the best multi-Doctor or anniversary episode.

 

[Ithekro]

I guess neither RTD nor Moffat could see Eight as the guy in the war.

 

[MacLeod]

As some of you may recall as I've mentioned it before, my introduction to Who was the 50th aniverssary show, "The Day of the Doctor". It was an amazing viewing experience that sold me on both the concept and the history of the show. Even as a complete rookie, I felt enthralled by the gathering of the Doctors to save Gallifrey at the end.

As I haven't lived my life in complete isolation, I did manage to get some of the jokes ("Nice scarf"), but mostly DotD was my cold introduction to the mythos. Yes, I began at the end (as this was before any Capaldi had aired). River Song would be proud.

Since then, I've immersed myself as much as time allows in in both new and classic shows, and thanks to the streaming service available from Hulu Plus and Netflix, I've had a good variety of classic Who to watch. Some episode that weren't available to stream, I just bought. I even bought "The War Games" on old school video tape just to see Patrick Troughton's last adventure. I had to borrow a VCR! I've even dabbled slightly into Big Finish, but with so much live Who yet to watch, and so little time...

But the journey has finally come full circle, and I re-watched "Day of the Doctor" last night, but this time as a genuine fan of the show. This time, I got so much more out of the little details. The jokes that went straight over my head the first time (Ten: "You've redecorated! I don't like it." Eleven: "Oh, you never do!"), to the historical nods (especially in the Black Archive, such as the board with the pics of old companions), and even stuff that I was only aware because of discussions here on the BBS, such as the UNIT dating controversies ("70s or 80s, depending on the dating protocol". Brilliant!) all made my second viewing as "new" as my first.

Oh, but the best part (of course!) was the gathering of the Doctors at the last battle. I felt "enthralled" by the sequence as a rookie, but this time... Awestruck. The first time through, it was more of an abstract thing ("Oh, look at all the Doctors"), but this time hearing the First Doctor approach, "Warning the War Council of Gallifrey, this is the Doctor!" sent shivers down my spine, even though I knew it couldn't be William Hartnell delivering the lines. This time I knew all of the Doctors, the actors, and their "number". I recognized their voices (Only Sylvester McCoy's Doctor rolls an "R" like that!), I must've watched the sequence half a dozen times, giggling like a fan boy.

In the end, I have to rate it a one of my favorite episodes of television of all time. It has served me as both introduction and retrospective, and introduced me to a franchise that frankly should have paid a lot more attention to a lot sooner.

There are plenty of easter eggs in "Day of the Doctor" some more obvious than others. Take the clock as Clara is leaving the School, it's showing the time the first episode aired.

And like others I'm sure it's "Calling the war council".

Still glad you enjoyed it.

 

[Iamnotspock]

I guess neither RTD nor Moffat could see Eight as the guy in the war.

I've never been convinced by that. Eight, Nine, War; they're all the same person, after all. Yes, they're different incarnations with different traits etc. but fundamentally, it shouldn't be too difficult to imagine one doing something that another wouldn't. I don't see why Moffat couldn't see McGann in the role of the "War Doctor"; if we go by his TV Movie appearance alone, he's an identikit Doctor, pretty much a blank slate that could be taken in any direction (it was McGann's performance that elevated it above that), while the Big Finish audios have absolutely taken him to some pretty dark areas - Scherzo, Dark Eyes - and if you're familiar with those stories, it's not hard to imagine him being driven to do what the War Doctor does. On top of that, the idea of the dashing, young, exuberant Doctor we saw in the film becoming the bitter, war-torn veteran is such a deliciously ironic one that I can't imagine anyone not wanting to do it. The whole point of the special was the redemption of a character who had been forced to become the very thing he had always railed against, and it would have been so much more resonant to have had that played out with an incarnation we knew previously as a more in-character Doctor, in order to get a better sense of how far he'd fallen.

A "Time War flashback/special featuring Paul McGann!" is something fans had been clamouring for since 2005, and it would have fit perfectly with Moffat's stated desire to "make those sixteen years ['90-'05] mean something" ("Imagine," he said, "we could have had the adventures of John Hurt!" Grr...).

What we did get with John Hurt, and which I greatly enjoyed (just not enough to not wish it had been Paul), was a classic "Old School" Doctor in the vein of Hartnell or Pertwee. I'm grateful too that we at least got Night of the Doctor, which was brilliant. Whichever way I look at it though, I can't see enough reason to shoehorn a new-old Doctor into the line-up when we already had the Eighth, and there were 20 good reasons to use him for the main event.