Revisiting an old friend

[darkshadow0001]

I never thought Voyager was all that bad, however I thought some of the characters were a little more "nerdy" then the other shows. For example, I didn't like the idea of a "hologram doctor", or Neelix, or half-human half-klingon character.

The show itself seemed more or less a B-rated Star Trek series. I say B-rated more for the fact it wasn't has popular as the others, but it was still fun to watch. I just watched "Endgame" on SpikeTV and the episode wasn't really terrible, it was fun to watch. I remember back in the day I don't think fans were to pleased for the use of time travel to bring Voyager back home, but it worked out alright, I think.

 

[Orac Zen]

[...] I remember back in the day I don't think fans were to pleased for the use of time travel

That would be an understatement. As I mentioned earlier some of the reactions to "Endgame" were / are over the top, IMO (back in the day it was quite incredible ), but to each their own.

 

[kimc]

^ Well I despise "Endgame" and am still a fan. Many hate "Threshold" but I find it amusing so there you go.

 

[Orac Zen]

Yeah, but you're wrong about "Endgame".

And "Threshold" is Voy's "Spock's Brain" or Plan 9. Another ep that attracts scorn out of all proportion to its actual merit, IMO.

 

[kimc]

Yeah, but you're wrong about "Endgame".

You know you're right. Using the borg yet again was a fabulous idea - we never got to see enough of them. As for the time traveling admiral at least this saved us from having to see the crew get home due to their own accomplishments. Gee, I wish a kimc from the future would come into my life right now and correct everything. Instead of the fancy ablative armor though perhaps she'll bring me the deed to a large coffee plantation so I can have a limitless supply of coffee. Yeah, that would be cool.

As for C/7, "love" scenes that make you want to puke are seriously underrated. Besides people wanted more realism in Voyager and what's more real than a midlife crisis?

Yeah, "Endgame" rocked.

 

[Orac Zen]

I don't agree, as you know. Well, except for the 7 / C bit.

 

[kimc]

I don't agree, as you know. Well, except for the 7 / C bit.

I know - I'm just yanking your chain.

 

[teya]

As for C/7, "love" scenes that make you want to puke are seriously underrated. Besides people wanted more realism in Voyager and what's more real than a midlife crisis?

Which is why "Resolutions" is such a joy to watch.

Better a midlife crisis, than expecting a red-blooded male to wait around celibate until Goddess Janeway deigned to acknowledge him.

 

[kimc]

As for C/7, "love" scenes that make you want to puke are seriously underrated. Besides people wanted more realism in Voyager and what's more real than a midlife crisis?

Which is why "Resolutions" is such a joy to watch.

Better a midlife crisis, than expecting a red-blooded male to wait around celibate until Goddess Janeway deigned to acknowledge him.

Okay, she was engaged at the time and hadn't given up on the idea of finding a cure and resuming a course for Earch (and Mark) until near the end. Love makes us crazy like that I guess!

Now if Voyager had not come back when it had it would have been a different story.

 

[teya]

As for C/7, "love" scenes that make you want to puke are seriously underrated. Besides people wanted more realism in Voyager and what's more real than a midlife crisis?

Which is why "Resolutions" is such a joy to watch.

Better a midlife crisis, than expecting a red-blooded male to wait around celibate until Goddess Janeway deigned to acknowledge him.

Okay, she was engaged at the time and hadn't given up on the idea of finding a cure and resuming a course for Earch (and Mark) until near the end. Love makes us crazy like that I guess!

She certainly showed more interest in the monkey than she did in the man.

Now if Voyager had not come back when it had it would have been a different story.

But it did.

And then J/Cers clung to the hope that Chakotay would stay celibate and pine for the Goddess until they got back to Earth--even if that took 70 years.

Ain't a mid-life crisis for a man to go after a living, breathing woman. It's regaining his sanity.

 

[kimc]

She certainly showed more interest in the monkey than she did in the man.

Maybe she was just answering the call of the wild.

And then J/Cers clung to the hope that Chakotay would stay celibate and pine for the Goddess until they got back to Earth--even if that took 70 years.

Not according to some of the fanfic I've read! Whoever thought there were so many creative uses for jeffrey tubes?

 

[teya]

She certainly showed more interest in the monkey than she did in the man.

Maybe she was just answering the call of the wild.

And then J/Cers clung to the hope that Chakotay would stay celibate and pine for the Goddess until they got back to Earth--even if that took 70 years.

Not according to some of the fanfic I've read! Whoever thought there were so many creative uses for jeffrey tubes?

Ah, AU. That's cool. Although I much prefer J/7 in the AU 'verse.

 

[kimc]

Ah, AU. That's cool. Although I much prefer J/7 in the AU 'verse.

Well up until "Endgame" it wasn't such an AU idea which is why C/7 coming out of left field caused a lot of anger. Personally, I've been greatly enjoying all the post-Endgame J/C fanfic. Apparently, the Jeffrey tubes still work while Voyager is in dry dock and as for the captain's chair...

I can't see J/7 myself although can understand why some do.

 

[teya]

Ah, AU. That's cool. Although I much prefer J/7 in the AU 'verse.

Well up until "Endgame" it wasn't such an AU idea which is why C/7 coming out of left field caused a lot of anger.

Wasn't on screen, wasn't canon, thus AU. Sorry.

 

[kimc]

Ah, AU. That's cool. Although I much prefer J/7 in the AU 'verse.

Well up until "Endgame" it wasn't such an AU idea which is why C/7 coming out of left field caused a lot of anger.

Wasn't on screen, wasn't canon, thus AU. Sorry.

My point was it was easier to to imply before "Endgame" (the same for J/7 or D/7) - that's all.

 

[teya]

Well up until "Endgame" it wasn't such an AU idea which is why C/7 coming out of left field caused a lot of anger.

Wasn't on screen, wasn't canon, thus AU. Sorry.

My point was it was easier to to imply before "Endgame" (the same for J/7 or D/7) - that's all.

The beauty of Endgame is that since the timeline was changed, any outcome can and does happen in its own 'verse.

Even C/7.

 

[kimc]

Even C/7.

Only when I'm not sober please!

 

[darkshadow0001]

Yeah, but you're wrong about "Endgame".

You know you're right. Using the borg yet again was a fabulous idea - we never got to see enough of them.

I didn't mind it. The Borg were the 24th Century's biggest enemy and Voyager was traveling through the quadrant that they lived in-- so it was inevitable they'd be a major part to the story. As Klingons were in TOS and TNG, and Cardarssians in DS9. The Borg just happened to be Voyager's bad guys.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I watched VOY when it originally aired, and again when it was in reruns on UPN. That was before the DVD sets came out and I really liked the show. Not too crazy about season 6...and even less crazy about season 7. But the first 5 were just swell, IMO, and even 6 and 7 had their good episodes.

However, Endgame is still very much a sticking point for me, and I have no desire to watch it ever again. I choose to pretend it doesn't exist. I really dislike what it did to the Janeway character...and additionally, as somewhat of a J/C'er (the only ship in all of Trek I care even a little bit about...although I'm not fanatical or anything), the C/7 bit annoyed me no end.

I purchased all the DVD sets when they came out...and watched the first 2 seasons again. Alot of gems there, and some little-discussed episodes that were actually some of the main reasons I liked the show in the beginning.

But for whatever reason, I kinda wandered away from my viewing during season 3...and have not watch the rest of the DVD sets. 3 of them are still in the shrink wrap, in fact.

I need to get back to the show, because there are some episodes I'm really interested in seeing again.

By the way, I don't mind alot of the episodes that some people hate - I think Threshold is stupid as hell, but essentially harmless to the overall show (the Plan 9 From Outer Space comparison is an apt one)...and I don't mind episodes like Fair Haven and Spirit Folk...which seem to generate alot of hatred.

I guess I reserve my hatred (and this goes for any Trek show - not just VOY) for episodes that ruin characters I really love. So in VOY's case, that would be, as already stated, Endgame...and also Flesh & Blood because it makes Janeway look so arbitrary in her punishment for what was essentially treason.

Other than that, there are certainly some episodes I enjoy more than others...but none that I really, really hate.

EDIT: Well, okay...I do hate that one with Neelix and Naomi Wildman and the holodeck. That was was just grating with sugary sweetness and got on my nerves. (end EDIT)

And there are a few episodes of VOY which I count among the best episodes of Trek ever made - my chief examples being Deadlock, Death Wish, Year of Hell, and Timeless. And let's not forget Trek's best cheese episode EVER - Bride of Chaotica! That is one of the ones I want to get back to. I loved that one!

 

[Lynx]

^^
I totally agree with you when it comes to character destruction. That's one thing I really hate.

Unfortunately there were some things in Voyager which ruined the show for me.

But I still like the characters, the premise for the show and most of the early episodes. For some strange reason, Voyager remains a favorite.