How do you feel about his assessments of both shows?
Resurrected StarShips - The Mandalorian vs Star Trek Discovery - a Critical Review
- Thread starter Kamen Rider Blade
- Start date
How do you feel about his assessments of both shows?
I tried but the whole "starships as characters" argument is one I reject so the rest of his premise is weak to my eyes.
And, the usual respect argument is tiresome. Star Wars remains the same and not willing to change and it is considered being respectful. Star Trek, as he notes at the beginning, is a whole different animal, so expecting it to remain the same is, well, a fool's errand.
So, with due respect to random YT guy, I think he misses the point on Discovery, while falling in to the trap that is currently plaguing nostalgic properties-that remaining as familiar and safe as possible it is a success.
And, the usual respect argument is tiresome. Star Wars remains the same and not willing to change and it is considered being respectful. Star Trek, as he notes at the beginning, is a whole different animal, so expecting it to remain the same is, well, a fool's errand.
So, with due respect to random YT guy, I think he misses the point on Discovery, while falling in to the trap that is currently plaguing nostalgic properties-that remaining as familiar and safe as possible it is a success.
If you're going to start the exact same thread in two different forums, could you at least trouble yourself to post some content to fuel the discussion in your opening post for one of the threads rather than just posting a YouTube video and leaving?
I guess you don't fall into part of the fandom that see's that point of view. There are many who do see "StarShips as characters", so you're just not part of that camp.
Indeed, yes. I see that around and it just is strange to me. Like, I understanding having an emotional connection in some way but insisting that ships have soul or are to be treated like characters is one opinion that I do not agree with. Especially since it is so sporadically applied. Does the Death Star have soul or character? If so, should we feel bad that it gets destroyed?
Now, I think ships should be fairly distinctive and recognizable. I think that's why things like the ROTS battle is such a struggle; if you are not familiar with whose ship is on what side then it is a confusing mess. And the only way I followed along was either playing Battlefront or reading Incredible Cross-Section: ROTS edition.
Saying something "has soul" imbues it with qualities I find lacking in ships.
Mileage will vary.
I'm sure somebody within the Star Wars community likes the design of the 'Death Star'. I may not be one of them, but there are fans for every ship / vessel out there.
Are you talking RotS("Revenge of the Sith") or TRoS ("The Rise of Skywalker")?
Obviously you're not one of those who loves the mecha aspect of Star Wars or Star Trek.
ROTS=Revenge of the Sith.
And what an odd conclusion. Because I don't see ships as characters I don't love the ships?
Do you love the Ships and mecha of Star Trek or Star Wars?
Yup. Have all the Cross-section books and studied the various aspects of how they work.
But you don't see them as "Characters in their own right"?
So what does all the mecha in Star Trek or Star Wars mean to you?
Beautiful technological design and set pieces.
Ships certainly *can* and often are characters in the own right...but (with a few exceptions) that's only supposed to be metaphorical, NOT literal. It's the same as saying (for the sake of argument) New York is a character in 'Ghostbusters'.
It's a thematic or romantic (no, not the smoochy kind) concept or conceit that's more of a reflection of the actual living character's sense of their place in the world and how they relate to it than the idea that they're literally alive and have souls. Like how Serenity is the embodiment of Mal's wanderlust and yearning for personal freedom (see also: Han & the Falcon). They're still inanimate objects though.
Science fiction being science fiction, there are of course literal examples like Farscape's Moya, Lexx, B5's Vorlon/Shadow Vessels, Andromeda Ascendant, Mass Effect's Reapers, and some debatable fringe cases like the TARDIS. The Discovery indeed may yet fall into this literal category, depending on how a particular plot thread plays out. We'll see.
It's a thematic or romantic (no, not the smoochy kind) concept or conceit that's more of a reflection of the actual living character's sense of their place in the world and how they relate to it than the idea that they're literally alive and have souls. Like how Serenity is the embodiment of Mal's wanderlust and yearning for personal freedom (see also: Han & the Falcon). They're still inanimate objects though.
Science fiction being science fiction, there are of course literal examples like Farscape's Moya, Lexx, B5's Vorlon/Shadow Vessels, Andromeda Ascendant, Mass Effect's Reapers, and some debatable fringe cases like the TARDIS. The Discovery indeed may yet fall into this literal category, depending on how a particular plot thread plays out. We'll see.
Yes, this is a good way to put it. I don't regard ships as characters but they can be extensions of characters that I am invested in. I don't care about the Millennium Falcon but I come to care about it because Han cares about it.It getting shot up is not evoking the same emotion as Han is getting tortured.
See I cared more about the Millenium Falcon than Han getting tortured, we all know when Han Solo is supposed to die. Seeing the Millenium Falcon abused by doing the Kessel Run in Solo saddened me. Such a beautiful vessel damaged because of wreckless piloting.
This makes very little sense to me, so agree to disagree at this point.
Well that's the thing about metaphors; their meaning can shift and change depending on the circumstances. Context, matters.
To use the same example; the Falcon did not cease to be important when Han died, it became *more* important because now it represents his legacy, a link to the past, memories, an implicit promise to carry on. At least for Rey. For Leia it would have a different though no less important set of meanings, same for Chewie.
It's a talisman or sorts, and like actual talisman it's significance isn't inherent in the object itself, but it is projected onto and reflected back the character it means something to.
To use the same example; the Falcon did not cease to be important when Han died, it became *more* important because now it represents his legacy, a link to the past, memories, an implicit promise to carry on. At least for Rey. For Leia it would have a different though no less important set of meanings, same for Chewie.
It's a talisman or sorts, and like actual talisman it's significance isn't inherent in the object itself, but it is projected onto and reflected back the character it means something to.
That's deeply weird.
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