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I just don't think they'll spend most of act one showing how rebel Kirk with the car-off-cliff chases, dead father, and bar fighting turned into the prize captain, then erase all of it in favor of an alternate version at the end where he was the prize captain all along. If he winds up mostly the same, what's the point?
I think a theme will be that history doesn't need to be reset again, that it all worked out due to old Spock and Kirk's awesomeness.
They might pull a Generations at the end with Vulcan, but I really hope not. The less "extra life!" video game moments the better.
I just don't think they'll spend most of act one showing how rebel Kirk with the car-off-cliff chases, dead father, and bar fighting turned into the prize captain, then erase all of it in favor of an alternate version at the end where he was the prize captain all along. If he winds up mostly the same, what's the point?
I think a theme will be that history doesn't need to be reset again, that it all worked out due to old Spock and Kirk's awesomeness.
They might pull a Generations at the end with Vulcan, but I really hope not. The less "extra life!" video game moments the better.
He's the villain in this film. Right? He's trying to accomplish something... something bad.
Our heroes are trying to prevent him from doing that.
We know he accomplishes part of what he's trying to do. (KABOOOM)
But the rest... if our heroes are to WIN, they need to defeat that, and ideally to defeat ALL of it (including bringing back the "KABOOM'ed" places... BOTH of them!)
By the time Kirk and Co are involved, it's too late to prevent the first of those two big "Kabooms," isn't it?
So... based upon what you know of the story so far... what do you think they'll be trying to do?
Kill Nero to get revenge? Is that really "Star Trek?"
If that's not what they do... c'mon, what do you envision them doing?
I think that saving the OTHER "big kaboom"... or rather, preventing it (and remember, that happens in TNG-era times, long after Kirk-era times... meaning plenty of chance to prevent it if they know how!) is the ONLY way to resolve the plotline in any sort of satisfying form.
But if that happens... and if that's what kicked Nero off in the first place (as we know, undeniably, is the case now - it's official!)... well... what does that INHERENTLY establish about the events in this timeline?
The interstellar event which eventually destroys Romulus in post-TNG-era times is prevented by action in Kirk-era times due to the introduction of technology from Nero and Spock, and of information from Spock.
Romulus isn't destroyed.
Vulcan never denies assistance to Nero's pleading for assistance in his efforts to save Romulus.
Nero isn't driven mad by watching his homeworld (and his wife) destroyed.
Nero has no REASON to go back in time to recover the technology with which he can save Romulus... OR to destroy Vulcan in the process. Why? Because it's already been saved.
With Nero never traveling to his past, George Kirk isn't killed.
Thus, Jim Kirk lives the life he would otherwise have lived. He attends the academy at the "right" time... rises through the ranks as he always did... and at the age of 32 is captain of the Enterprise, not a disgraced troublemaker. (But, in every meaningful way, both versions are the same guy... "there but for the grace of God" and all that...)
i still think kirk's father is still killed. it may be at a certain point things just cant be reset.
maybe kirk has to chose about just what can be reset and bought back.
actually one of the interesting things to consider is by his actions nero is bringing about the man kirk was supposed to be.
I think Nero is presumably trying to blow up every inhabited planet starting with Earth and Vulcan (and the Klingons). If Vulcan is blown up, then they would probably spend the rest of the film trying to stop Earth from also getting blown up.
Though I'm not sure if Vulcan will get blown up or not. I mean, the whole drill scene seems to end with Kirk shooting the crap out of the drill (we see him shooting it in the trailer) then they fall off it (also in the trailer). I'm guessing maybe they fall off it because it's blowing up. In the scene where they're falling off, I don't see any large black holes in the background...
That planet blowing up in the trailer could be any planet. The Klingon homeworld, or Klingon prison planet come to mind. Or they could pull what they pulled in INS. and have it be a computer simulation.
I'm not so sure about that one - it's a bit too much of a downer. Something where there's an ambiguous possibility that he's either died or moved suddenly back to his own time seems more likely to me.
That didn't stop them in WOK! Besides, old Spock will die, but young Spock is ready for new adventures. Not quite so down (except for old school fans like myself!)
Seriously, Spock's character is now old. It would make sense. Especially if they decide to have him again sacrifice his life, somehow being a vital part in preventing Nero's scheme, so that Vulcan is restored, Kirk et al live, etc. etc. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one, especially the old one. It would be something that is not unthinkable given his past actions in the Wrath of Khan.
I could be wrong. The fangirl in me would prefer that he just goes home, or heads back to Romulus, etc. But I can see real story potential in killing him off and it would be a nod to the Trek past.
Nimoy had high praise for the thematic elements of this movie.
It'll probably be something like "heroes will always end up being heroes regardless of what happens in between" and that will spark off some kind of "are we a product of our environment?" debate.
But seriously, the main point of the movie will probably be that the essence of Kirk remains the same between timelines. He gets to the same point, just in different ways. And we go from there.
I just don't think they'll spend most of act one showing how rebel Kirk with the car-off-cliff chases, dead father, and bar fighting turned into the prize captain, then erase all of it in favor of an alternate version at the end where he was the prize captain all along. If he winds up mostly the same, what's the point?
I think a theme will be that history doesn't need to be reset again, that it all worked out due to old Spock and Kirk's awesomeness.
They might pull a Generations at the end with Vulcan, but I really hope not. The less "extra life!" video game moments the better.
He's the villain in this film. Right? He's trying to accomplish something... something bad.
Our heroes are trying to prevent him from doing that.
We know he accomplishes part of what he's trying to do. (KABOOOM)
But the rest... if our heroes are to WIN, they need to defeat that, and ideally to defeat ALL of it (including bringing back the "KABOOM'ed" places... BOTH of them!)
By the time Kirk and Co are involved, it's too late to prevent the first of those two big "Kabooms," isn't it?
So... based upon what you know of the story so far... what do you think they'll be trying to do?
Kill Nero to get revenge? Is that really "Star Trek?"
If that's not what they do... c'mon, what do you envision them doing?
I think that saving the OTHER "big kaboom"... or rather, preventing it (and remember, that happens in TNG-era times, long after Kirk-era times... meaning plenty of chance to prevent it if they know how!) is the ONLY way to resolve the plotline in any sort of satisfying form.
But if that happens... and if that's what kicked Nero off in the first place (as we know, undeniably, is the case now - it's official!)... well... what does that INHERENTLY establish about the events in this timeline?
The interstellar event which eventually destroys Romulus in post-TNG-era times is prevented by action in Kirk-era times due to the introduction of technology from Nero and Spock, and of information from Spock.
Romulus isn't destroyed.
Vulcan never denies assistance to Nero's pleading for assistance in his efforts to save Romulus.
Nero isn't driven mad by watching his homeworld (and his wife) destroyed.
Nero has no REASON to go back in time to recover the technology with which he can save Romulus... OR to destroy Vulcan in the process. Why? Because it's already been saved.
With Nero never traveling to his past, George Kirk isn't killed.
Thus, Jim Kirk lives the life he would otherwise have lived. He attends the academy at the "right" time... rises through the ranks as he always did... and at the age of 32 is captain of the Enterprise, not a disgraced troublemaker. (But, in every meaningful way, both versions are the same guy... "there but for the grace of God" and all that...)
I'm not so sure about that one - it's a bit too much of a downer. Something where there's an ambiguous possibility that he's either died or moved suddenly back to his own time seems more likely to me.
That didn't stop them in WOK! Besides, old Spock will die, but young Spock is ready for new adventures. Not quite so down (except for old school fans like myself!)
Seriously, Spock's character is now old. It would make sense. Especially if they decide to have him again sacrifice his life, somehow being a vital part in preventing Nero's scheme, so that Vulcan is restored, Kirk et al live, etc. etc. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one, especially the old one. It would be something that is not unthinkable given his past actions in the Wrath of Khan.
I could be wrong. The fangirl in me would prefer that he just goes home, or heads back to Romulus, etc. But I can see real story potential in killing him off and it would be a nod to the Trek past.
besides she will probably get busy and not come back for a while.
she never did read rest the rest of jayson 's thread..
hmm or uh oh..
but you know ..we may get to see sam's vision..
we might still see sam's vision of an old spock and kirk sitting together over looking a city.
because young spock grown old may decide to go with kirk , scotty and chekov for the launch of the new enterprise. and rescues jim just before the nexus blast hits him.
^^ hey hey..
continuity folks .. well thats me but i dont believe in being a slave to it. just like the original writers were not, if it came in the way of a story.
but they did try to play heed to it somewhat. because , it had richness to the background of the story.
-If there is a "reset," it would be the restoration of Vulcan.
-I'm guessing that the story will end with our heroes in an alternate, but very close timeline. Meaning they are now free to do whatever with no pesky canon. So Shatner Kirk et al went off in one direction, Pine Kirk et al will head off in a new (but similar) direction.
I'm not so sure about that one - it's a bit too much of a downer. Something where there's an ambiguous possibility that he's either died or moved suddenly back to his own time seems more likely to me.
Suppose the writers don't kill off old Spock, and don't send him back to the old timeline because his ship is disabled.
You'd keep him around as a Gandalf figure, wouldn't you? Operating in the shadows. Stranger in a strange land, that kind of thing, doing what he could to steer history in its proper course, only he was just as lost as everyone else?
Killing off Spock is the conventional thing to do, and since I suspect that they've decided to wipe out Vulcan in order to make defeating Nero consequential (the equivalent of taking out the Death Star), then there'd be some pathos left in keeping him around to lead what's left of his people in some sort of diaspora. Just a thought.
I just don't think they'll spend most of act one showing how rebel Kirk with the car-off-cliff chases, dead father, and bar fighting turned into the prize captain, then erase all of it in favor of an alternate version at the end where he was the prize captain all along. If he winds up mostly the same, what's the point?
I think a theme will be that history doesn't need to be reset again, that it all worked out due to old Spock and Kirk's awesomeness.
They might pull a Generations at the end with Vulcan, but I really hope not. The less "extra life!" video game moments the better.
He's the villain in this film. Right? He's trying to accomplish something... something bad.
Our heroes are trying to prevent him from doing that.
We know he accomplishes part of what he's trying to do. (KABOOOM)
But the rest... if our heroes are to WIN, they need to defeat that, and ideally to defeat ALL of it (including bringing back the "KABOOM'ed" places... BOTH of them!)
By the time Kirk and Co are involved, it's too late to prevent the first of those two big "Kabooms," isn't it?
So... based upon what you know of the story so far... what do you think they'll be trying to do?
Kill Nero to get revenge? Is that really "Star Trek?"
If that's not what they do... c'mon, what do you envision them doing?
I think that saving the OTHER "big kaboom"... or rather, preventing it (and remember, that happens in TNG-era times, long after Kirk-era times... meaning plenty of chance to prevent it if they know how!) is the ONLY way to resolve the plotline in any sort of satisfying form.
But if that happens... and if that's what kicked Nero off in the first place (as we know, undeniably, is the case now - it's official!)... well... what does that INHERENTLY establish about the events in this timeline?
The interstellar event which eventually destroys Romulus in post-TNG-era times is prevented by action in Kirk-era times due to the introduction of technology from Nero and Spock, and of information from Spock.
Romulus isn't destroyed.
Vulcan never denies assistance to Nero's pleading for assistance in his efforts to save Romulus.
Nero isn't driven mad by watching his homeworld (and his wife) destroyed.
Nero has no REASON to go back in time to recover the technology with which he can save Romulus... OR to destroy Vulcan in the process. Why? Because it's already been saved.
With Nero never traveling to his past, George Kirk isn't killed.
Thus, Jim Kirk lives the life he would otherwise have lived. He attends the academy at the "right" time... rises through the ranks as he always did... and at the age of 32 is captain of the Enterprise, not a disgraced troublemaker. (But, in every meaningful way, both versions are the same guy... "there but for the grace of God" and all that...)
There must be consequence to killing Nero. Remember why Star Wars Episode IV worked (which, btw, I am convinced is JJ's template for this film-all that is missing is Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru...). The Death Star destroyed Alderaan. The Rebel Alliance had one chance to take it out or the D/S would take out the rebel moon orbiting the gas giant. There was dramatic urgency to Episode IV.
If you are constantly able to go back and fix things as if they never happened, there's no dramatic moment. It's like kissing your sister. That's why I think Vulcan's getting it in the neck. Permanently. Earth takes the role of the Rebel Moon Base which gets saved just in time by Enterprise and Jim Kirk.
BTW, totally ripped off awards ceremony at the end where Kirk, Uhura, NuSpock, and NuMcCoy get Medals for saving Earth. JJ's "up yours" moment to Lucas. You heard it here first.
Old Spock wanders the galaxy as "The Old Traveling Jedi". Trust me, this will turn into a huge, galactic ripoff of Episode IV. The Fanboys will see this, but the general public won't recognize it because it's been so long since EpIV.
---------------------------
NUKIRK: "Well, we're here at Starfleet!"
SPOCKPRIME: "San Francisco, California! In all the Galaxy, you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be careful!"
Say for the sake of argument there is a reset. A reset to what point? Does the movie end in with the birth of James T. Kirk and the proud father witnessing the birth and being handed his son for the first time? A joyous, happy moment? Basically a sign to the moviegoers that the timeline has been returned to how it was "supposed" to be?
I mean, for there to be a reset, Nero would have to be stopped at the point where he first polluted the timeline, right? Stopping him after he's committed all that mischief (47 destroyed Klingon ships, altering Kirk's life, maybe destroying Vulcan or some other planet) resets nothing. It's a new timeline. Those things stay. The future has been changed.
Say for the sake of argument there is a reset. A reset to what point? Does the movie end in with the birth of James T. Kirk and the proud father witnessing the birth and being handed his son for the first time? A joyous, happy moment? Basically a sign to the moviegoers that the timeline has been returned to how it was "supposed" to be?
I mean, for there to be a reset, Nero would have to be stopped at the point where he first polluted the timeline, right? Stopping him after he's committed all that mischief (47 destroyed Klingon ships, altering Kirk's life, maybe destroying Vulcan or some other planet) resets nothing. It's a new timeline. Those things stay. The future has been changed.
Which is another good point because I'm pretty sure nero's space squid dosen't work like the giant time canon from VOY's Year of Hell so blowing it up dosen't reboot the timeline.
Besides, old Spock will die, but young Spock is ready for new adventures. Not quite so down (except for old school fans like myself!)
