Reset Button at the end of Star Trek? *Potentially Major Spoilers*

[Michael]

Did a reset make "City on the Edge of Forever" a bad story? Did it ruin "Yesterday's Enterprise"? Did it stink up "All Good Things"?

No, no and no. And that's why I think it might work in this movie, too.

But those were resets to a history that the viewer was aware of - for the target audience, the original history doesn't exist.

That's actually a very good point. I just think that in some way Nimoy-Spock's mission will be successful. And I'm almost sure that the writers don't want the end to look like it leads to a completely new Trek universe where all of the succeeding series didn't happen/happened in a different way. It's just my feeling that they won't do that. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Aragorn]

Kreeper doesn't sound like someone I'd want to know.

 

[Franklin]

One thing bothers me a great deal about the idea of a reset. A reset is "making things right." In this case, it would be preventing Nero from even achieving his first act of mischief. It would be like making sure Edith Keeler dies, or Enteprise-C is around to defend the Klingons, or Cochrane makes his flight.
Someone has to know wrong has been done. The only thing old Spock knows when he's back in the 23rd century is that the things Nero is doing will change the future he knew. But he can't know how or to what end. His motivation for stopping Nero must be for some other reason, perhaps tied to the backstory in the comic books in some way. A 24th century reason.

However Orci and Kurtzman have decided to tell this story, the act of "setting things right" as we've known it in Trek does not seem to be what's being done, here. Old Spock is not telling Kirk to go back in time and destroy Nero. The fight against Nero is all "real time." And, how does stopping him reset things if you dont' erase everything back to the first moment? It doesn't.

Really, if it's a reset, then some "insider" needs to tell us exactly where the button is.

 

[Devon]

No, no and no. And that's why I think it might work in this movie, too.

But those were resets to a history that the viewer was aware of - for the target audience, the original history doesn't exist.

That's actually a very good point. I just think that in some way Nimoy-Spock's mission will be successful. And I'm almost sure that the writers don't want the end to look like it leads to a completely new Trek universe where all of the succeeding series didn't happen/happened in a different way. It's just my feeling that they won't do that. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

It wouldn't make sense to do a reset (and I really hope they don't either) because of one thing: Quantum Mechanics. This is a theory Orci has pushed on this issue of canon, etc. The theory basically says that multiple timelines can co-exist. So what would there be to "reset?" The new timeline would go on no matter what. If someone went back and destroyed the Narada before it attacked the Kelvin, all that would do is just create another timeline from that point on! Which is why I also have a suspicion that we aren't dealing with a story as simple as "Spock going back in time to stop Nero," or at least in the traditional sense.

 

[Augustus]

I doubt this is true. Isn't it strange that right after the trailer made a big splash and created buzz, that "insiders" are coming out with "new info" on how it is just not that great of a movie?

Sounds like some people want attention.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I'm think Old Spock's mission is more along the lines of damage control, He can't stop Nero from screwing up the timeline but he can make sure certain events ie Kirk as captain of the Enterprise come to pass while trying to stop Nero from doing futher damage In the hope that at least something of his old timeline exists in this new one.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I thought this movie was supposed to show how the crew got together. So after we wait years and spend tens of dollars to see it - Paramount and Abrams send us this huge "Frak You" Valentine saying "This is one possible way this could have gone, come back in three years and we'll tell this story all over again. The right way this time (fingers crossed)".

I agree -- I want my cake and eat it too!

I think we will all be exposed to these characters (although they hopefully won't seem like "new" characters), grow to appreciate these new actors in the familiar roles, but in this "unfamiliar timeline". Then all will be reset back to the familiar timeline -- the one where TOS occurs.

We will still have the new actor's characterizations, and we will still have the new "look" Enterprise, but it will be the good ol' TOS universe.

I understand that the "average Joe movie-goer" won't be able to easily tell just how unfamiliar/familiar the timeline is, but hopefully a good screenwriter/director will be able to get that point across. I think that is Old Spock's purpose in this film...I think he is there to convince Kirk (and us, the audience) that the timeline is screwed up and something needs to be done about it. IMHO, the Kirk we see at the end of the film (gold tunic/captain's braids) will be the post-reset button Kirk.

However, I could be wrong .

It wouldn't make sense to do a reset (and I really hope they don't either) because of one thing: Quantum Mechanics. This is a theory Orci has pushed on this issue of canon, etc. The theory basically says that multiple timelines can co-exist. So what would there be to "reset?" The new timeline would go on no matter what. If someone went back and destroyed the Narada before it attacked the Kelvin, all that would do is just create another timeline from that point on! Which is why I also have a suspicion that we aren't dealing with a story as simple as "Spock going back in time to stop Nero," or at least in the traditional sense.

This would be true only if Orci's comments about Quantum Physics were actually an overt plot point in this film. If Orci was simply using quantum physics as an "out-of-film" explanation, then those comments are irrelevant "in-film".

I personally don't think there will be any quantum physics technobabble in this movie. Average movie-goers have seen enough sci-fi to understand that time travel "messes up the future", and that's all they need to know.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I think we will all be exposed to these characters (although they hopefully won't seem like "new" characters), grow to appreciate these new actors in the familiar roles, but in this "unfamiliar timeline". Then all will be reset back to the familiar timeline -- the one where TOS occurs.

Not a chance.

I suppose it's possible that they save Vulcan, though.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I think we will all be exposed to these characters (although they hopefully won't seem like "new" characters), grow to appreciate these new actors in the familiar roles, but in this "unfamiliar timeline". Then all will be reset back to the familiar timeline -- the one where TOS occurs.

Not a chance.

I suppose it's possible that they save Vulcan, though.

For all we know implody is either a flashback to Nero's future revenge or viual exposition of his plan that or it does go boom.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I think we will all be exposed to these characters (although they hopefully won't seem like "new" characters), grow to appreciate these new actors in the familiar roles, but in this "unfamiliar timeline". Then all will be reset back to the familiar timeline -- the one where TOS occurs.

Not a chance.

I suppose it's possible that they save Vulcan, though.

I agree with the Vulcan part...

But why not a reset?

I'm saying the franchise will still have the new actors' characterizations and the new "look" to work with in potential sequels -- these are things that can still easily exist within the "real" TOS history.

Why would these things NEED to exist outside of TOS to make a good sequel(s)?

 

[Garak]

I was browsing the NeoGAF thread on the new Star Trek trailer when someone posted a link to the CHUD forums, in which one of their posters claimed to be prevy to information regarding the movies plot.

Here is what he had to say:

Spoiler: Spoiler

From what the people I know who worked on it told me, it does. Paramount and Roddenberry's estate would never approve of all these changes for an actual reboot; they're too radical.

Please forgive the upcoming rant, Chewers. Like Devin, I'm privy to info you aren't.

I can't believe all the people in this thread jerking themselves off into a frenzy over the trailer. Some of you are the same people who were complaining about how bad ENTERPRISE, VOYAGER, and other Rick Berman/Brannon Braga episodes were, due to over reliance on time travel.

Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman are doing the same thing B&B did: they're essentially pushing the Reset Button at the end of the movie. The difference is that B&B never charged us $10 to sit through it.

Kurtzman and Orci think they're being clever by essentially changing history as Trekkers know it and then saying, "But that didn't really happen."

This isn't a prequel, it's a sidequel. In other words (SPOILERS)

• Kirk's parents get killed/tortured - but it didn't really happen.
• Vulcan gets invaded/destroyed -- but it didn't really happen.
• Pike mentors Kirk, shows him his "destiny" -- but it didn't really happen.
• Chekov gets killed - but it didn't really happen.

How is that exciting? If it was lazy writing on ENTERPRISE and VOYAGER, then it's lazy writing here.

You guys ever see any of those fan fiction-based ST Webisodes that are all over the Internet? Well, based on what I know and have seen, this film looks like a $150 million dollar fan fic film (albeit with better acting).

My prediction is that this'll be ST:TMP all over again: it'll make money because everyone will go see it; it'll get good reviews, but looking back everyone will finally admit that, while they enjoyed it, it wasn't really good STAR TREK. Except instead of 2001, they'll be comparing this to DAWSON'S CREEK and (bad) STAR WARS.

The good news is that, like ST:TMP, if it's successful, Paramount will then finally hire someone to give us a real ST movie. It probably won't be Abrams and company. They had the opportunity to do any ST story they wanted and they ended up going into the past rather than dealing with the future.

So kudos to you guys who are looking forward to this. It's just hard for me to get excited about this, from what I've been told/shown. To me it looks like lazy storytelling/filmmaking. I feel that ST deserves better.

I really hope the movie does not turn out to be like what his guy describes, as that would be an absolute disaster in terms of plot. I really cannot think of much to say other than the fact that I would be pretty angry if thats how it all goes down.

Sounds like more hysterical bullshit from people that probably still wet the bed.

I'm not inclined to believe it, but this guy should probably be put on suicide watch just like that Devin guy.

It strikes me as odd that hyper critical losers like these are privy to anything behind the scenes about this movie. Why would anyone want them around?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I think we will all be exposed to these characters (although they hopefully won't seem like "new" characters), grow to appreciate these new actors in the familiar roles, but in this "unfamiliar timeline". Then all will be reset back to the familiar timeline -- the one where TOS occurs.

Not a chance.

I suppose it's possible that they save Vulcan, though.

Why not?

I'm saying the franchise will still have the new actors' characterizations and the new "look" to work with in potential sequels -- these are things that can still easily exist within the "real" TOS history.

Why would these things NEED to exist outside of TOS to make a good sequel(s)?

So they can actually DO some intersting stuff and put our heros in REAL danger with out worring about contridicting anything.

 

[Michael]

I think we will all be exposed to these characters (although they hopefully won't seem like "new" characters), grow to appreciate these new actors in the familiar roles, but in this "unfamiliar timeline". Then all will be reset back to the familiar timeline -- the one where TOS occurs.

Not a chance.

I suppose it's possible that they save Vulcan, though.

I agree with the Vulcan part...

But why not a reset?

I'm saying the franchise will still have the new actors' characterizations and the new "look" to work with in potential sequels -- these are things that can still easily exist within the "real" TOS history.

Why would these things NEED to exist outside of TOS to make a good sequel(s)?

That's my train of thought, too.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

But why not a reset?

Why a reset?

You spend a little over two hours telling people a story and then you say, "Well, Brian, I was just using my VR goggles, you know. Not good, not good..."

 

[Michael]

But why not a reset?

Why a reset?

You spend a little over two hours telling people a story and then you say, "Well, Brian, I was just using my VR goggles, you know. Not good, not good..."

Well, you also wouldn't want to spend a little over two hours watching Spock and Co. trying to stop Nero from changing the timeline and in the end see them fail.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

But why not a reset?

Why a reset?

You spend a little over two hours telling people a story and then you say, "Well, Brian, I was just using my VR goggles, you know. Not good, not good..."

Well, you also wouldn't want to spend a little over two hours watching Spock and Co. trying to stop Nero from changing the timeline and in the end see them fail.

What makes you think that Spock dosen't see the damage as already done and is only trying to fix what he can and stop Nero from making things worse.

 

[Saul]

Back to the Future 2!!!!!!

 

[Michael]

Why a reset?

You spend a little over two hours telling people a story and then you say, "Well, Brian, I was just using my VR goggles, you know. Not good, not good..."

Well, you also wouldn't want to spend a little over two hours watching Spock and Co. trying to stop Nero from changing the timeline and in the end see them fail.

What makes you think that Spock dosen't see the damage as already done and is only trying to fix what he can and stop Nero from making things worse.

Oh, that is what I think he'll be doing. His goal is to restore the timeline he knows as much as possible. I doubt that he'll fail. Hollywood likes Happy Ends too much.

 

[Tom]

Gene's estate ( well just Rod Roddenberry now since Majel died recently) has no say on what Paramount does with Star Trek. Rod has told me this himself on a few occasions and I know he wishes he did have a controling interest, but sadly, this is not the case.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

But why not a reset?

Why a reset?

You spend a little over two hours telling people a story and then you say, "Well, Brian, I was just using my VR goggles, you know. Not good, not good..."

I want to preface this by saying I fully intend to enjoy this film, reset or not... . I'm not one who says "this isn't exactly what I want, so fuck them!"

Having said that, what if they make the whole point of the film to be "we need to restore the real timeline" and introduce that plot point early on in the film. If that becomes the primary mission of this film's characters , then restoring the timeline becomes the purpose of this film (in-film purpose). That, and the introduction of these characters to a new group of fans (out-of-film purpose).

The new actors can be introduced to fans. The characters can be introduced to non-fans. The whole new aesthetic can be introduced to everyone. Then they can go off to do stuff in the TOS timeline.

Otherwise, we are NOT seeing the origins of the TOS crew, but the origins of a crew we never saw or met before. I understand that in itself may be the point -- a crew whose future is unwritten, free to do whatever they want. That fact has not gone over my head. However, I think there is plenty of room within the "real" TOS universe for this crew to do almost whatever they want -- short of dying.

There's no shortage of TOS era novels being written all the time. Even though I don't read the novels, I know that those authors don't seem to have trouble thinking up new stories to tell.

I do understand that if a rest DOES occur, then possibly the characters' journeys we saw to that point in the film may not ever have happened, thus perhaps we would STILL have learned nothing about the TOS characters' origins. I mean, would the film go back after the reset and show Kirk go to the Academy at a young age, serve on the Farragut, etc? Of course not -- we wouldn't see that in this film; I realize that. However, I'm hoping Abrams and crew could be clever enough to make a reset work somehow.